Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

[J.Wolf]

I use this one. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Works great for the flex top

 

[GK Breivik]

Cool! Do you like it tilted or flat?

 

[J.Wolf]

Just barely tilted back. It has pretty good adjustability.

 

[kesslari]

I'll be really curious of your experience with the 109 vs flex top, as I may be moving that direction as well.

It is so much more bangin with the sub, but I've been amazed what the flex top on an amp stand can do. Crazy big for a single 10" woofer (although as we all know theres a lot more to that cab than just a 10" woofer).

I am curious about that as well, although I also plan to use the MAS109 as a sub (Magic Mike put in a crossover to do so) under the FlexTop.
Which is my planned rig for most dance gigs.
Some people name their basses. I think I should name my rig "John Lee Hooker" 'cos it packs the Boom Boom Boom.

 

[kesslari]

I use this one. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Works great for the flex top

That's cool. I wish the amp stand I use had that tilt-adjust feature. Would be much safer for my head...

 

[Gab124]

Got the MAS112 in my hands today. Playing around with it in my house I can tell I am glad I didn't take it last night, I would have been fiddling with knobs instead of grooving. I can tell it is designed to be a live, in the mix cab, as it is hard to grab that "bedroom" tone out of it. There is something in the mids I need to track down as, in my home, it has a bit more of a boxy almost sterile sound to my ear right now (that could be me not being familiar with so much clarity though). If I turn up the bass to "warm" it up some it gets a little too powerful in a closed space, and if I try to turn up the volume it quickly becomes too much. It does have some serious low end and I can tell how well it "wraps" the space with sound. looking forward to getting it with the full band and tweaking some. So far I can tell there is some definite potential, but I never gush too much until I can put it in the field.
A pic or it doesn't exist of course

 

[Gab124]

Wow, I was hearing the mids that were inherent in the strings I had on. They were not really dead at all, I could just hear their tone differently,,,more clearly maybe. Put on a different brand and it is very much noticeable the freq response of the new set, not just a new crisp thing. Hmm, interesting. Also brought out the empress and narrowed into a few things. I didn't get the tweeter and I really don't think I would have ever needed it, there are tons of high end content for the styles that I play - basically a modern country southern rock sort of thing. Cool, lots of fun so far.

 

[kesslari]

Is that new 112 sitting on a Gramma pad?

 

[Gab124]

That is not a gramma it is one I made using the isolation feet on the bottom. It is slightly angled upward, maybe 1/2" higher in front or so. The feet are made from Sorbothane.

 

[MarkA]

Got the MAS112 in my hands today. Playing around with it in my house I can tell I am glad I didn't take it last night, I would have been fiddling with knobs instead of grooving. I can tell it is designed to be a live, in the mix cab, as it is hard to grab that "bedroom" tone out of it. There is something in the mids I need to track down as, in my home, it has a bit more of a boxy almost sterile sound to my ear right now (that could be me not being familiar with so much clarity though). If I turn up the bass to "warm" it up some it gets a little too powerful in a closed space, and if I try to turn up the volume it quickly becomes too much. It does have some serious low end and I can tell how well it "wraps" the space with sound. looking forward to getting it with the full band and tweaking some. So far I can tell there is some definite potential, but I never gush too much until I can put it in the field.
A pic or it doesn't exist of course

Wow, I was hearing the mids that were inherent in the strings I had on. They were not really dead at all, I could just hear their tone differently,,,more clearly maybe. Put on a different brand and it is very much noticeable the freq response of the new set, not just a new crisp thing. Hmm, interesting. Also brought out the empress and narrowed into a few things. I didn't get the tweeter and I really don't think I would have ever needed it, there are tons of high end content for the styles that I play - basically a modern country southern rock sort of thing. Cool, lots of fun so far.

I don't know which version of the MAS 112 you have. With mine (the 18 Sound version), I think it sounds pretty good at home, but it opens up in a different way on the gig -- more detailed, more "3D", with more kick. Unlike with a lot of other cabs, the dynamics get better as you crank it a bit. Doesn't have to be super-loud to get there, but I'm not going to get into this cab's sweet spot in my living room.

I've also found that while I fiddle with EQ, gain, etc., endlessly at home, I don't fiddle much on a gig. Part of it, I think, is that with some musical context (the other instruments and voices) it's a lot easier to zero in on what I want to hear, but part is that I just really like the way the cab sounds and feels once I get into "playing out" volume. Some amps and cabs have a special synergy -- and I of course like some amps better than others -- but I've never played an amp that I thought paired badly with this cab.

As for what you noticed with different strings, I've found that changing pickups, hand position, strings, etc., is all very clearly reflected through this cab. The characters of different amps and basses, likewise.

 

[spiritbass]

There is no gramma pad involved in my setup, just a rolling table (made from MDF) that I removed the rollers from and braced. It got the cab 20-22" off the floor and balanced things nicely. The bass was over-emphasized when I was just using an ampwedge:

 

[Gab124]

I don't know which version of the MAS 112 you have. With mine (the 18 Sound version), I think it sounds pretty good at home, but it opens up in a different way on the gig -- more detailed, more "3D", with more kick. Unlike with a lot of other cabs, the dynamics get better as you crank it a bit. Doesn't have to be super-loud to get there, but I'm not going to get into this cab's sweet spot in my living room.

I've also found that while I fiddle with EQ, gain, etc., endlessly at home, I don't fiddle much on a gig. Part of it, I think, is that with some musical context (the other instruments and voices) it's a lot easier to zero in on what I want to hear, but part is that I just really like the way the cab sounds and feels once I get into "playing out" volume. Some amps and cabs have a special synergy -- and I of course like some amps better than others -- but I've never played an amp that I thought paired badly with this cab.

As for what you noticed with different strings, I've found that changing pickups, hand position, strings, etc., is all very clearly reflected through this cab. The characters of different amps and basses, likewise.

I hear ya on all that. I do tend to fiddle much more at home too, I can tell it is going to mesh with a full band. Drummer came over and listened. He walked around the house and more importantly placed himself to the side of the cab while I played. He had a serous look on his face, and them busted out in a big smile.
My cab is the 4ohm faital.

 

[Gab124]

There is no gramma pad involved in my setup, just a rolling table (made from MDF) that I removed the rollers from and braced. It got the cab 20-22" off the floor and balanced things nicely. The bass was over-emphasized when I was just using an ampwedge:

I'm thinking of making a small table like this as well for running it horizontal.

 

[mntngrown]

I hear ya on all that. I do tend to fiddle much more at home too, I can tell it is going to mesh with a full band. Drummer came over and listened. He walked around the house and more importantly placed himself to the side of the cab while I played. He had a serous look on his face, and them busted out in a big smile.
My cab is the 4ohm faital.

When you get it in a club the off axis will amaze. Your drummer already sensed this. I and others have played behind the stage out the front door etc and experienced the BigE magic dispersion. The phenomenon is real. My little 46 and solid state Kustom kxb500 sounded much better in the same club on alternate nights to a blues guitar buddy of mine, than a full SVT rig and he played both nights as lead

 

[Ewo]

+1 to the comments above. (I'm using a Sadowsky, too, a WL5 in rosewood/alder.)

The cab might seem underwhelming at home, I guess because turning it up and cranking the bass doesn't give the "filled up your ears" sense conventional cabs do. Except you might notice everything in the room is vibrating...

In a performance environment it asserts a place in the mix with authority, but without stepping on other instruments. It's _there_ in the mix, with consistency as you move around on the stage.

And it continues to delight me how it makes nuances in touch on the bass audible on stage. Er...delights me when I'm playing well, that is...

 

[Razman]

<emerges from lurk mode>

Anyone try a Peavey MiniMega with a MAS cab yet?

...back to lurking...

 

[Gab124]

+1 to the comments above. (I'm using a Sadowsky, too, a WL5 in rosewood/alder.)

The cab might seem underwhelming at home, I guess because turning it up and cranking the bass doesn't give the "filled up your ears" sense conventional cabs do. Except you might notice everything in the room is vibrating...

In a performance environment it asserts a place in the mix with authority, but without stepping on other instruments. It's _there_ in the mix, with consistency as you move around on the stage.

And it continues to delight me how it makes nuances in touch on the bass audible on stage. Er...delights me when I'm playing well, that is...

I like the way that sounds. Often times when you try to obtain a muscular presence in the mix from stage to room you end up overpowering everything else, and then you back off volume or thin out eq some and then you don't have the support you should have/want (this all dependent on genre and tone choice of course). I don't want to be under everything, but just as much I don't want to be on top either - I don't aim for "cutting" through as is so popular. So, your description has me excited to try it out.
And yes, my house has lots of vibrations I was not aware of - but your comment on "filling the ears" makes some sense. What within conventional cabs does that, distortion of some kind or the way the sound waves interact and propagate into the environment? What ever it is, I would wager that one instrument should not be filling the ears more than the others, it would seem that would simply rob the all important space within the music. Similar to making sure everyone understands slotting yourself in the mix from an eq standpoint - which I still sometimes struggle with guitarists on but way better now that I play with more mature musicians. No one member should ever want to dominate.

 

[Ewo]

Whelp, as to the "filling your ears" question...

There's a good chance I might be committing the _every problem looks like a nail_ fallacy with the guess that follows, since I was just reading up on room modes and bass trapping lately, and that's my hammer. (Note: IANA acoustician.) My band rehearses about once a month in the family room of my house, and that room just sounded crappy. We got stupid loud, because (IMHO) nobody could hear themselves clearly. Anyhow, reading this article Invalid Link Removed got me interested in putting some bass traps and wall absorbers in the room. Dropped a few hundred bucks on the Acoustimac products, and put them in place. We haven't rehearsed there yet, but cranking the hi-fi tells me the acoustic environment is vastly improved. Just as Noxon said in that article, bass trapping seriously helps the clarity of low freqs in a room.

So, I'm spitballing it that the "filling the ears" thing with conventional cabs is the result of room modes in untreated spaces. So we players kind of got used to that when auditioning cabs, and associate it with loud cabs. The MVW design of Mike's cabs disrupts that phenomenon, AFAIK. (Duke LeJ had posted awhile ago about the Big-E design making the sound waves _decorrelated_.)

Again, that's just me spitballing it. But I've got a cheapie sound pressure meter, and I've measured the level in my practice room when I cranked one of the MAS cabs. At 100dB everything in the room vibrates, but my ears don't feel filled up from it.

 

[spiritbass]

Our sanctuary at church could benefit from a bass trap or two. I'd be happy just to have the sympathetic vibration of the wall nearest my rig to go away. The MAS cabs are clean when producing high SPL's - they just don't behave the same as conventional cabs. It's like your ears are expecting to hear distortions that are not there. Phantom Distortion Syndrome. At the risk of repeating myself (!), I never get tired of sounding this good.

 

[Gab124]

Tonight was the first time to take the new 112 out to play in some musical context. It was rehearsal for an originals band - drums, keys, guitar and vocals, medium to low volume. The practice space was the drummers drum store, likely 60x50 space I would guess, and full of drums, racks etc (he clicked all the snares off). All the descriptions given throughout these threads are spot on, and I don't always experience that. Often times a new piece of equipment might have some of the characteristics that others describe, but really never this close. The sound was full, clear, thick and "inside" the rest of the mix/players. You have to hear it yourself I guess; I was very pleased.

Last week I played this same space, with same amp and bass with my xsonics cab all in the very same position of the room. That cab when I would get it to the point where it was thick and authoritative enough for my goals would be way too overpowering for the mix,, so I would back it down and then it was not as supportive as I would have liked, and it was always right there behind me from a projection standpoint. Hard to explain. I can't get over the fact that tonight I was so supportive without dominating everything. I did not get to walk around the room and listen unfortunately, but, it was like I had multiple bass cabinets surrounding the circle we were playing in. The keys across the way were clear, with bass nearby; guitar also clear with a bass nearby.. Strange and I apologize for trying to explain the experience because I don't have the right descriptors.
In my home I was afraid it might be too sterile for me, but tonight it was very organic and very present. I felt like I could have turned up even louder and still been ok, but knew I didn't have to for it to work.

I can say this...I have played bass for nearly 33 years using high end, low end and classic gear. I have never been so dumbfounded by a cabinet in my life. It let me stop fiddling so much and just get into the groove. I am not saying I plugged in and left all knobs were they were, I had to tweak just a couple times, but then it was just there, or maybe I should say everywhere.

I know this is long winded, sorry. I don't want to come across as saying this is better than s3x equipment. It does not have a unicorn horn on it or anything and I don't think it could fart rainbows. I can tell that for me my Streamliner might not be the best match with it, but man it was just there regardless of a few niggles in tone. Simple, supportive, clear bass that sat where it should be.

IDK, count me as someone who is really getting into the Big E thang. I still have some gigs coming up, so I will make sure that this was not an anomaly of some kind. But tonight was really fun for me.

Oh, and I did get lots of compliments after practice, so yay for that