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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

#281
Had the 26 horiz. ~2' up on a stand @ the Boulder Creek gtg. Could have been the room, but i do like it better on the floor, and it works fine vertical too. Im picturing a TH350 fitting nicely on top of the 26 vert. Super tiny footprint!
 
#283
A Note To The Mods--this speaker was a collaboration between Duke and me. I had input into Duke's 1203. This is not me criticizing another manufacturer's cabinet. It is not me patting myself on the back as far as my cabinet. I am directly answering a question posed as far as objectively comparing the two. The manufacturer (Duke) has no problem with me doing so. As far as compliance with the CUP rules I think that I'm within the boundaries. If not please delete this post and accept my apologies.

Well Duke would agree and this is likely objective from both of our vantage points.Duke was kind enough to allow me to use essentially the same crossover. We're both using Faital 3's although I'm using four of them for essentially a double 1203. So there is a family resemblance in the mids and voicing. I opted to having two mid voicing switches while Duke combines them into one I think. I get a bit confused as far as that.The 112 has a lot more lows and extension. A lot more low end impact It'll go louder than two of the 1203's. Power handling is on par with two of the 1203's.

Our design goals were really different. Duke actually designed the crossover for the 112. I tweaked it a bit.


But the 1203's have a form factor that is very flexible and cool. I can't touch that. For what is in essence a 212 the 112 is a very easy schlep.
 
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#284
Mike Arnopol said:
I'm beginning to understand your tonal goals.

If I'm surmising correctly, you are evolving toward something with a bit stronger bottom than Roger's but maintaining the more forward mids. I know that Dukes has a small bit less mids but a bit more bass. Without the upper bass junk that makes things "wooly" to you. The 110 Flex would be good---but after carrying around Duke's dinky little things-----
Click to expand...

I'm glad someone figured it out. I'm going to write that down because I keep forgetting...
 
#285
coyoteboy said:
Had the 26 horiz. ~2' up on a stand @ the Boulder Creek gtg. Could have been the room, but i do like it better on the floor, and it works fine vertical too. Im picturing a TH350 fitting nicely on top of the 26 vert. Super tiny footprint!
Click to expand...
funny--
I had a similar experience with the 25 yesterday. It really depends on the room and situation, though. The best sound I got was the 25 on the floor in the upright position. Tom and Steve have worked really hard to get the cabs working well in the vertical position. Which is reflected in the more recent cabs.
 
#286
Mike Arnopol said:
A Note To The Mods--this speaker was a collaboration between Duke and me. I had input into Duke's 1203. This is not me criticizing another manufacturer's cabinet. It is not me patting myself on the back as far as my cabinet. I am directly answering a question posed as far as objectively comparing the two. The manufacturer (Duke) has no problem with me doing so. As far as compliance with the CUP rules I think that I'm within the boundaries. If not please delete this post and accept my apologies.

Well Duke would agree and this is likely objective from both of our vantage points.Duke was kind enough to allow me to use essentially the same crossover. We're both using Faital 3's although I'm using four of them for essentially a double 1203. So there is a family resemblance in the mids and voicing. I opted to having two mid voicing switches while Duke combines them into one I think. I get a bit confused as far as that.The 112 has a lot more lows and extension. A lot more low end impact It'll go louder than two of the 1203's. Power handling is on par with two of the 1203's.

Our design goals were really different. Duke actually designed the crossover for the 112. I tweaked it a bit.


But the 1203's have a form factor that is very flexible and cool. I can't touch that. For what is in essence a 212 the 112 is a very easy schlep.
Click to expand...
Just want to confirm that Duke is totally fine with everything Mike has said here. Mike's cab would go louder and definitely lower and have more impact. That 18Sound woofer he's using is a monster, and it's in a monster cab.

Why don't I use that 18Sound woofer? Because its parameters predict a thin-sounding low end in a reflex bass guitar cab, but it works very well in Mike's MVW cabs. So there's another advantage of that technology. Dangit.

The main reason I've been coming out with more compact designs is, Mike's Big E technology doesn't scale down as readily as conventional vented box technology, so that's an area of the market where I can still be competitive. But if you do the math, you'll see that you're getting a lot of sound-per-dollar with Mike, and that's not even taking his qualitative advantages into account.

And yes, Mike has helped me more times than I can count to steer my little boat in the right direction. He'll call me up out of the blue and make suggestions that don't help his business at all. I guess he's forgiven me for trying to poison him by having him build all those composite cabinets.
 
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#287
Mike Arnopol said:
A Note To The Mods--this speaker was a collaboration between Duke and me. I had input into Duke's 1203. This is not me criticizing another manufacturer's cabinet. It is not me patting myself on the back as far as my cabinet. I am directly answering a question posed as far as objectively comparing the two. The manufacturer (Duke) has no problem with me doing so. As far as compliance with the CUP rules I think that I'm within the boundaries. If not please delete this post and accept my apologies.

Well Duke would agree and this is likely objective from both of our vantage points.Duke was kind enough to allow me to use essentially the same crossover. We're both using Faital 3's although I'm using four of them for essentially a double 1203. So there is a family resemblance in the mids and voicing. I opted to having two mid voicing switches while Duke combines them into one I think. I get a bit confused as far as that.The 112 has a lot more lows and extension. A lot more low end impact It'll go louder than two of the 1203's. Power handling is on par with two of the 1203's.

Our design goals were really different. Duke actually designed the crossover for the 112. I tweaked it a bit.


But the 1203's have a form factor that is very flexible and cool. I can't touch that. For what is in essence a 212 the 112 is a very easy schlep.
Click to expand...
Thanks Mike! You and Duke are both class acts in my book.
 
#289
20140606_021900928_iOS.jpg
Thursday for my band's practice I borrowed my good friend Big Red Six's new MA 112 and a 110 flex and 110 sub from Mike. We practice in a big finished basement. I played my Precision through my GK 800MB Fusion into the 110 with the sub first. I was paying more attention to the switches and Eq than I was to the music. After a couple of tunes I switched to the 112 and decided both were kind of excessive for that small space. The room sucks up highs and mids so I wound up using the most aggressive settings on both and close to the actual flat settings on the GK. The bottom end of both is just devastating. The 110 with the sub seems slightly faster and more controlled and the 112 seems to go slightly deeper. The 112 seems like you are getting punched in the chest with a heavy boxing glove and the 110 w/ the sub is more like bare knuckles to the sternum. Not as much difference as I thought there might be. They both will hurt you. The 112 seems a little more aggressive in the upper mids and the 110 has a little nicer mid sound. The 112 also seems to go almost as high as the 110, even without the tweeter. Both sounded better than almost any other cabs I've heard. The 4x6 I tried in that room did seem easier to control without hurting anyone. Both of these cabs are dangerous monsters. I think the maximum volume of both is pretty close. I got death threats from trying to find that out. I think I preferred the sound of the 110 w/the sub by a small margin, but the aggressive upper mids of the 112 really sounded great for a loud rock tune. The 110 w/ the sub is not hard to move, not real heavy and the two pieces help, but the 112 is the king of the schlep. The wheels on the bottom and the handle on the back make it easier to move than carryon luggage. I have to go down a long flight of stairs and the side handles and narrow width make it very easy, and I'm old and out of shape. The flex has a slight edge in sound and more tonal options, but the 112 is about as loud, sounds great, has all the BigE magic, is easier to move, and is about half the price.
 
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#291
That's my MA112 and it does indeed swing a very mighty hammer. When I first played it at Mikes with my Sadowsky NYC 5 and GK MB Fusion 800, I was on the verge of vertigo/nausea after only a few minutes; seriously massive and every bit as"visceral" as Mike has described it.
 
#292
BIGREDSIX said:
That's my MA112 and it does indeed swing a very mighty hammer. When I first played it at Mikes with my Sadowsky NYC 5 and GK MB Fusion 800, I was on the verge of vertigo/nausea after only a few minutes; seriously massive and every bit as"visceral" as Mike has described it.
Click to expand...

That is the bit of a tradeoff---in small rooms indoors (not clubs--basements and living rooms) the temptation is to push these cabs because there is a fun factor in that. As Tom Bowlus said in his review of the 210 Flex---it sounds good in a small room but seems to like being opened up a bit in a bigger space. That was my design goal--cabs for gigging. As Radbass said---the 46 or just the single 110Flex would be better in a smaller space. The big dogs can do it---you just have to hold off on the reins a bit.
 
#293
Played the 46 on a milk crate outdoors tonight. put a 2x2 under the front for even more elevation. Horizontal orientation. The old school approach I am now trying to cop with no compromise. But the site has steep stairs, so I did not bring the all tube amp, or the 48, (so I compromised). But the 80's Japan Fender P with the thick La Bella flats 52-110, which still need some more gigs to get em broken in right and the streamliner made for some nice blues. And it fills significant space. People dancin all over the place. Know it's right then. The host lady called us her favorite band, and said she has been trying to get us to play her birthday since the first time she heard us. The 46 is no coffee shop cab. This little Giant can take care of medium duty no problem. My guitar player/singer said it sounded great.
 
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