Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

[Aroneng]

You could add to your list the new, downsized 112 -- didn't get to hear it, but I did get to see one that appeared to be awaiting speakers and, relative to the old school MAS 112s, that thing is tiny.

Sound per cubic centimeter, though, the new MAS 110s appear to be king -- and, from everything Mike says (and from my experience of my own 112 and the earlier 112 with the custom Eminence speaker), would have more booty than the 112 (though still sounded open and nicely balanced to my ear).

Bodai 28 is a beautiful-sounding (and, again, outrageously detailed -- but not at all harsh) cab, but if you like a bit of paper-cone breakup with your cab, it's probably not the way to go. Would depend on your amp, too -- as I said, the Orange amp was more sympatico with the 110 than the Bodai.

Mark (and others),

Have you had an opportunity to play through a Flex 110? Realizing the Flex 110 was one of the first cabinets that Mike produced under MAS, it is a special cab that brings those special 3D like qualities and unique mids to the forefront. How does the Flex compare to the B28 and MAS 110? We all have our own preferences and it seems like you really enjoyed the MAS 110.

 

[MarkA]

I think the MAS 28 would edge a 46 by a small amount in volume -- and I like the tone profile and note envelope a little more for how I play electric bass -- but for sheer volume, I don't think it would hang with a 66...

Hey, @mntngrown, I'm afraid that I have to correct myself. A 46 (a cab familiar to both of us) has a Vd (volume displacement) of about 600 CCs. A 66 has a Vd of about 900 CCs (I think the various MAS 112s are in that ballpark, too -- the numbers have come up a few times in the various threads).

The MAS 28, per Mike, has a Vd in the ballpark of 800 CCs, so it's closer in that respect to the 66 than the 46. This would also jive with Mike's past statement (in the other thread, I think) that a 28, with a good HPF, would get about as loud as a MAS 112, but that the 112 (being less "deep" and less sensitive to those sub 30 Hz frequencies) would edge it without.

I hope that you didn't make any life-altering decisions based on my over-conservative earlier estimate!

For those who don't know, Mike isn't able to post in this particular thread.

 

[mntngrown]

Hey, @mntngrown, I'm afraid that I have to correct myself. A 46 (a cab familiar to both of us) has a Vd (volume displacement) of about 600 CCs. A 66 has a Vd of about 900 CCs (I think the various MAS 112s are in that ballpark, too -- the numbers have come up a few times in the various threads).

The MAS 28, per Mike, has a Vd in the ballpark of 800 CCs, so it's closer in that respect to the 66 than the 46. This would also jive with Mike's past statement (in the other thread, I think) that a 28, with a good HPF, would get about as loud as a MAS 112, but that the 112 (being less "deep" and less sensitive to those sub 30 Hz frequencies) would edge it without.

I hope that you didn't make any life-altering decisions based on my over-conservative earlier estimate!

For those who don't know, Mike isn't able to post in this particular thread.

You are so awesome to take the time to clarify.

 

[mntngrown]

Thanks Mark as I was trying to make a gear hauling and a return trip load and move PA stuff decision re space in my vehicle. Gonna take the 66 to the gig and will report back. Your input is stellar on this thread!

 

[kesslari]

Mark (and others),

Have you had an opportunity to play through a Flex 110? Realizing the Flex 110 was one of the first cabinets that Mike produced under MAS, it is a special cab that brings those special 3D like qualities and unique mids to the forefront. How does the Flex compare to the B28 and MAS 110? We all have our own preferences and it seems like you really enjoyed the MAS 110.

I had a Flex 210 and the B28 has got that same 3D sound quality, for sure.

 

[MarkA]

Mark (and others),

Have you had an opportunity to play through a Flex 110? Realizing the Flex 110 was one of the first cabinets that Mike produced under MAS, it is a special cab that brings those special 3D like qualities and unique mids to the forefront. How does the Flex compare to the B28 and MAS 110? We all have our own preferences and it seems like you really enjoyed the MAS 110.

Hey, Aron,

I did enjoy the MAS 110 -- seriously considering a pair as a modular rig.

I have a 210 Flex Mod (sub + 110 top, essentially). That stack has the craziest 3D mids I've heard. It is out of town -- and it's been some time since I played it -- but I did gig it a few times. I specifically recall playing it with a Jule Monique, a Reiner Super Box O' Tone (neat piece -- don't know if he ever made any more of those), and the humble Kustom KXB500. It was pretty killer with all of those. I also played just the top once or twice, but I remember less about that.

The "regular" MAS cabs, without the separate chamber for the mids, sound more open and 3D than most cabs to me, but it's a subtle thing -- mostly, you just notice better clarity and more even coverage out in the house. The Flex takes that further than cabs like my MAS 112.

Bearing in mind that I only played the Bodai 28 in Mike's shop and that it's been awhile since I've played the Flex, there's still a difference between it and the MAS series cabs -- it is more detailed, more open, more 3D... maybe not in quite so obvious a way as the Flex (though the Flex still sounded great fit and organically with a band), but I think that the package is more refined, both sonically and in its form factor, than the Flex.

I'd agree with @kesslari that the Bodai 28 has the same kind of 3D thing going on as the Flex. Flex could get more aggressive in the mids and had a more focused "chest punch" -- B28's impact is spread over a wider frequency range and the sound is very even from bottom to top.

As I said, it's been awhile since I played the Flex, but the B28 strikes me as closer to it in terms of its overall presentation and 3D quality than to the MAS 110 or MAS 28 I tried. Revealed another level of detail with the Sonic Farm 2DI4, for what that's worth.

 

[mntngrown]

I personally as a former Greenboy 3015 lf cab builder never bonded with the 3010 lf woofers in that cab and the mid 3d was lost on a 4 string flats thumper Like my MAS28 and 48 and 66 just playin the pocket and don't even hear when my limited runs up the neck engage the mids but must say those runs are smooth as they were not on my3015 lf plus mid cab before. Go MAS

 

[coyoteboy]

Outdoors, no boundary support, i did an actual double take when I looked back and saw 2 6.5’s punchin all dat out! No pics, was too hot for pics! pjb D-400 get honorable mention for performance in 103° 3 hr gig.

... second day, second gig. Space is at a premium. Only MAS will do.

 

[bassically_eli]

Outdoors, no boundary support, i did an actual double take when I looked back and saw 2 6.5’s punchin all dat out! No pics, was too hot for pics! pjb D-400 get honorable mention for performance in 103° 3 hr gig.
View attachment 3509639

... second day, second gig. Space is at a premium. Only MAS will do.

That's funny, I had almost the same exact experience recently. I was playing with a big band (17 or 18 pieces), outdoors, with no PA. I used my Warwick LWA500 into my MAS-26 (8 Ohms). I turned up a lot louder than usual due to the situation, but I think I was actually a bit too loud. I did have a little boundary support, though, as we were on the patio right next to the building, so there was one wall (and the stone floor of the patio me have helped too). Funny that it was also very hot, mid to upper 90's and super humid, but I didn't even think about anything over heating. I guess the head was probably safe running at 8 Ohms, but I guess I didn't do the voice coils any favors. Needless to say, I was super impressed with the MAS!

 

[spiritbass]

That's funny, I had almost the same exact experience recently. I was playing with a big band (17 or 18 pieces), outdoors, with no PA. I used my Warwick LWA500 into my MAS-26 (8 Ohms). I turned up a lot louder than usual due to the situation, but I think I was actually a bit too loud. I did have a little boundary support, though, as we were on the patio right next to the building, so there was one wall (and the stone floor of the patio me have helped too). Funny that it was also very hot, mid to upper 90's and super humid, but I didn't even think about anything over heating. I guess the head was probably safe running at 8 Ohms, but I guess I didn't do the voice coils any favors. Needless to say, I was super impressed with the MAS!

I'm not really surprised that these 2x6 rigs sound so full. I was actually considering one as my first venture into MAS but ended up with one of the first 110 Flex cabs. I never gigged it, but I would have been satisfied playing my 18 live, and if I'm not mistaken, a 2x6 would move a bit more air. I am so spoiled by my pair of 110 Bodai, I am again at the point of being unable to imagine anything better.

 

[bassically_eli]

I'm not really surprised that these 2x6 rigs sound so full. I was actually considering one as my first venture into MAS but ended up with one of the first 110 Flex cabs. I never gigged it, but I would have been satisfied playing my 18 live, and if I'm not mistaken, a 2x6 would move a bit more air. I am so spoiled by my pair of 110 Bodai, I am again at the point of being unable to imagine anything better.

The 18 moves more air than the 26. The 26 is rated for 300 cc's, and the 18 is somewhere over 400, IIRC. 300 cc's is comparable to a 210 though, so I basically think of mine as a super narrow 210. I really like the tiny stage footprint when stood on end: 13.5" x 8.5"! The day after the aforementioned gig, I played a gig on a very crowded stage that is also super boomy; it's a tall and hollow stage. The MAS stood tall was perfect! A couple of audience members complimented my tone and were surprised to hear I wasn't in the PA, well, at least directly. The bass drum mic might have been picking up my amp, as it was behind the drum set (again, crowded stage). Turns out they run a small studio and asked if I would be available to do some work . Who knows, maybe this cab will pay for itself someday, even for this amateur musician!

 

[RandM]

You've gotta love that!! : )

 

[MarkA]

I personally as a former Greenboy 3015 lf cab builder never bonded with the 3010 lf woofers in that cab and the mid 3d was lost on a 4 string flats thumper Like my MAS28 and 48 and 66 just playin the pocket and don't even hear when my limited runs up the neck engage the mids but must say those runs are smooth as they were not on my3015 lf plus mid cab before. Go MAS

The only Fearful cab I've played was a 15, maybe five years ago or so. I liked the idea, but the deep lows seemed kind of loose and uncontrolled to me and the mids harsh (though that could be influenced by the choice of mid-driver and crossover version -- the lows, not so much). From what I hear, the Fearless cabs are better in those regards, but I've never played one.

In any case, I've never played a bass reflex (traditional ported) cab that handled like the MAS cabs do -- this isn't hate on those cabs -- there are non-MAS cabs that I like -- just saying, in terms of control and articulation in the deep lows (for the cabs that go that deep) and their unique dispersion characteristics (which allow them to fill a room so well and do so well outdoors), I haven't encountered anything else that does what the Big E/MAS cabs do -- and it's those specific features that make them so attractive to me.

Whether a specific cab/tone is someone's jam or not is another story but, re. your observation about transitions from lows-to-mids-to-highs and back again, that's an area where I feel Mike's cabs excel. Never felt, when trying any of the cabs I did recently, like, "Oh, here are the mid drivers coming in... here's the tweeter." My first MAS cab -- a gen. 1 66 (two-way), when standing close, I felt that -- could have had something to do with the crossover, could (no idea) have had to do with where the front and rear waves integrated vs. what was coming off the tweeters. At any rate, the 46 and my MAS 112 feel very well integrated, as did the 28s and MAS 110 I tried, even when standing in different places relative to the cab.

 

[spiritbass]

The 18 moves more air than the 26. The 26 is rated for 300 cc's, and the 18 is somewhere over 400, IIRC. 300 cc's is comparable to a 210 though, so I basically think of mine as a super narrow 210. I really like the tiny stage footprint when stood on end: 13.5" x 8.5"!

I stand corrected, but am still not surprised at their fullness - the vortex works.

 

[BIGREDSIX]

Hey all,

Gigged my two MAS 110's last Saturday for the first time. The eminence on the bottom, the Faital on the top with the "mid switch" off (I think). RAD engineering 1000P (Pascal) power amp and Arkham Abyss pre with my Pavel Jazz 5. As I expected, sound was excellent - tight, articulate, full range. Broughton Messenger on my pedal board, used mainly for the HPF/LPF functions. Synopsis in a nutshell: Worthy!

 

[whirledpeas]

Hey all,

Gigged my two MAS 110's last Saturday for the first time. The eminence on the bottom, the Faital on the top with the "mid switch" off (I think). RAD engineering 1000P (Pascal) power amp and Arkham Abyss pre with my Pavel Jazz 5. As I expected, sound was excellent - tight, articulate, full range. Broughton Messenger on my pedal board, used mainly for the HPF/LPF functions. Synopsis in a nutshell: Worthy!

View attachment 3515217

Sweet rig!

 

[coyoteboy]

Get some side feet on those 10’s.

 

[MarkA]

If y'all are interested:

New MA Soundworks Tens (MAS 110 and Bodai 110 cabs - impressions, discussion, rambling, amps...)

 

[mntngrown]

Hauled the 48 out for a motorcycle club's get together BBQ. Held it's own with the loud incoming Harley's. First time I used it with the new band. Band leader guitar/singer was 20 or 30 feet away from my cab with drummer in between. Cab was on carpet on dirt. Guitar player said at the break, that he liked my cab because he could "feel" my playing.

 

[kesslari]

Have any of you ever taken out a woofer or two in order to look inside a MAS cab. I am hearing something strange in my 66 when I move it around. I am guessing that is the only way to look for loose wires or crossover components etc?

Maybe send Mike a PM?