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Double Bass BigE 45 w iAmp Doubler or QSC K-10 for DB

rickwolff

rickwolff

‘Leave the clams in, let ’em know we're human,'
Supporting Member
Dec 24, 2012
3,609
5,770
Hudson Wisconsin (15 miles from St. Paul/Mpls
#1
This may be like asking which is better: and apple or an orange, but these two options are stuck on my GAS list and I wonder if anybody has had experience with both. I am really intent on mixing my PU (Lifeline) and a MIC (currently have a Pro-35 - would like a DPA 4099). Playing a mic thru PA gives a great sound in my experience and opinion - hence the K-10. I also like the punch I get from the PU and I don't know if I would still get any of that from the K10 ( I'll have a chance to try it out tomorrow night at rehearsal). If I went the K-10 route I already have a Fishman PP Pre and would either add to or replace that with a good pre for the mic, if necessary. I seems those who are using the K-10 on a pole are largely avoiding the feedback issue (and it's easier to hear and stay in tune). I haven't heard about putting the Big E45 on a pole - maybe I should ask Mike. Any and all thoughts/opinions would be welcome. Thanks !!
Rick
 
#2
I am actually right in the middle of this process right now. I own an iAmp Pro, Big E 45, EAP, and a DPA 4099B. I have a K-10 and an ART Pro Channel II at the house and have been comparing a bunch of different combinations of all of the above. I don't have any answers yet but will start narrowing things down soon. We'll compare notes.

I tried a Pro 35 years ago, I don't think they have changed much. The DPA is in a different league all together and punchy as hell! (I do realize that it is priced accordingly :eyebrow:) I'm not planning on blending. My idea right now is use the DPA on most gigs and then switch to the EAP when things get too noisy.

BTW, Mike is offering a trial period on Big E cabs and he will install mounting cups also.
 
#3
Wow!! I couldn't have asked for an answer from someone with better direct experience with the exact gear I am interested in! Now I shall anxiously await the results of your experimenting.

I also really appreciate several of your thoughts: I might just bite the bullet and get the 4099 (I think the Pro-35 is still in my trial period). The 35 DID convince me that one way or another I want to work with a microphone. With what you say about the 4099 I may well give up the 'blending' idea as well, since it probably just isn't necessary and may not add anything worthwhile.

By the way, I work primarily with smaller jazz groups. I often play with a trio without drums and a 5 piece in which the drummer likes to play rather light and stay well within the mix. For those rare louder gigs such as the big band I occasionally play with I stll have the slab (collecting dust) and my TC Electronic BG250 which I really quite like but would like to replace with this better newer gear for the DB work.

Thanks for all the great info and insight!! I'm looking forward to your conclusions.

Rick
 
#4
Badong said:
I am actually right in the middle of this process right now. I own an iAmp Pro, Big E 45, EAP, and a DPA 4099B. I have a K-10 and an ART Pro Channel II at the house and have been comparing a bunch of different combinations of all of the above. I don't have any answers yet but will start narrowing things down soon. We'll compare notes.

I tried a Pro 35 years ago, I don't think they have changed much. The DPA is in a different league all together and punchy as hell! (I do realize that it is priced accordingly :eyebrow:) I'm not planning on blending. My idea right now is use the DPA on most gigs and then switch to the EAP when things get too noisy.

BTW, Mike is offering a trial period on Big E cabs and he will install mounting cups also.
Click to expand...

Badong, I don't see anyone else jumping in with an opinion or experience with these two rigs so if this thread falls off perhaps you could PM me with your thoughts after you've had some more time to experiment. I really hope to find out if I can use a mic for my stage sound, if that ends up not being practical I may just concede using the Lifeline into an amp and just use the mic FOH (many others on TB seem to think that is a better way to go).
 
#5
I just spoke with a buddy of mine about a GTG on Monday, with drums and guitar. I should be able to give some more definite answers after that.

I'm really wondering if I need to get a hold of a Yamaha DXR12 as well. It costs less than the QSC and I have heard from multiple sources that it has a more even response top to bottom.
 
#6
Just finished jamming with my friends. Playing with the DPA mic through the QSC was awesome. Huge sound, lots of punchy articulation. My friends were blown away. I am really in love with this microphone through a PA. IMO, nothing, nothing gets closer to the sound of my bass than the DPA mic. I had so much fun! Obviously, the mic has limitations. Your group will need to be sensitive for this to work but I was surprised at how loud I could get. I started using an RTA app on my phone to identify and kill problem frequencies. Very effective.

I was not able to get the microphone to work very well with the MAS45. My suspicion is that Mike tuned the cabinet to have a little mid bump in it so that it would cut through a live band mix with a piezo, which it does very well. If he is following this thread maybe he can shed some light on this. I haven't noticed anyone else mention this in the other threads so maybe it's just my ears. I was able to get much more gain before feedback with the QSC than with the Big E, even with compensating for those frequencies.

With the Erhlund, the MAS45 really stood out. It was way easier to hear when the drummer started bashing. I can get a decent tone with the EAP through the QSC but not like the 45.

I think as proof of concept this really works. I would have to run two systems, one for the mic and one for the piezo and just decide before the gig which one to bring. I'm investigating a couple of other options that may allow me to run one system.:bassist:
 
#7
In my experience there are so many variables when working with a mic, that it's pretty hard to quantify things. That said, speaker placement, what preamp you use, and, of course, the qualities of the space you're in, make all of this a black art. In the preamp department, what I've found is that the Summit pre offers a combination of tweaks that fit the dpa-into-whatever scenerio reasonably well: between the variable input impedance and the variable hpf ... it really helps. Add that you can mix a pickup into the whole mess, and it makes things particularly flexible.
 
#9
Badong said:
Just finished jamming with my friends. Playing with the DPA mic through the QSC was awesome. Huge sound, lots of punchy articulation. My friends were blown away. I am really in love with this microphone through a PA. IMO, nothing, nothing gets closer to the sound of my bass than the DPA mic. I had so much fun! Obviously, the mic has limitations. Your group will need to be sensitive for this to work, but I was surprised at how loud I could get. I started using an RTA app on my phone to identify and kill problem frequencies. Very effective. :
Click to expand...

I’ve used the DPA 4099B FOH a number of times and in those situations it always shines through. Using it through a powered speaker also works nicely, provided you can elevate the speaker on a stand of some sort, and supply the 4099 with 48 volts to the phantom so you get the best signal to noise ratio.

Badong said:
With the Erhlund, the MAS45 really stood out. It was way easier to hear when the drummer started bashing. I can get a decent tone with the EAP through the QSC but not like the 45. :
Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense to me, because Mike designed the 4x5 as a bass cabinet.The K10 was conceived with different criteria. There are advantages to both of these
boxes, but their design goals were different. When I use my K8 with the Ehrlund, it requires both the Ehrlund Pre Amp and the Headway EDB-1 to get the best signal from the pickup.

Badong said:
I think as proof of concept this really works. I would have to run two systems, one for the mic and one for the piezo and just decide before the gig which one to bring. I'm investigating a couple of other options that may allow me to run one system.:bassist:
Click to expand...

There are occasions when I use both the DPA and the EAP but it’s not often that I do that. The Ehlund will cover most of my gigs with a simpler setup. Just my take.
 
#11
#12
I don't usually get feedback in the bass frequencies and the mids/highs are elevated in the L1 with a vertical dispersion of 40º. Bose claims that the compact line array helps avert feedback. I'm not sure how that would work but some of the reviews I read and watched on Youtube seem to indicate that this is the case. I considering giving one of these a go.

I've heard the Yamaha is more even but I wonder if the extra 10 lbs. is worth it.

Guitar Center, duh! Just checked and both of these are in stock at my local store. Gonna try and check it out tomorrow . . .
 
#13
rickwolff said:
With the Sub on the floor it would seem to preclude using this with a mic since it seems you need to have your speaker up at ear level to project over the bass and not cause feedback.

Has anyone yet compared the Yamaha to the QSC??
Click to expand...

Rick
From my experience with the K8, elevating the unit, works to your advantage, for just the reasons you stated above. You can also hear the speaker better when it's not firing around or into something at floor level. I played through the Bose Performer once, not my cup of tea and it's expensive.

Ric
 

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