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BL wants us to down tune half a step for next gig

#41
There's a little less tension on the strings. Other than that, no big deal - don't overthink it. Keys hit the transpose button for the entire gig, harmonica has to play a different harp, brass / sax plays down a half step. They're the only ones for which it really changes. Make sure the lower songs aren't to low for your singer. It's unlikely that your truss rod will need any tweaking, but check it out before you get to the gig / rehearsal. If you have perfect pitch, it may bother you initially.
 
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#42
RichardW said:
We've been playing together for 15 years, we're all in our 60s now and the high parts on the vocals are getting a little tougher to reach. Our BL wants us to down tune a half step for the entire gig.

Thoughts on this? I assume my fingering will stay the same (except for open strings). Any advice on how to become accustomed to this approach?
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Well, our band has about 10 years on yours and been around since 1966, , so yes who’ve had to make some concessions. We’ve had to stop doing some song, adjusted keys on others, and sadly, human mortality solved some issues.

if it were me, I would rather change song that no longer fit the talent at hand than just arbitrarily dropping keys. Keep in mind we have horns, and and half or whole step modulations cause much consternation, not to mention the cost of the charts.

One other bit of advice and apologies if this is off topic, but enjoy each other like there is no tomorrow and each gig might be the last one.

Best wishes.
 
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#43
dbsfgyd1 said:
Well, our band has about 10 years on yours and been around since 1966, , so yes who’ve had to make some concessions. We’ve had to stop doing some song, adjusted keys on others, and sadly, human mortality solved some issues.

if it were me, I would rather change song that no longer fit the talent at hand than just arbitrarily dropping keys. Keep in mind we have horns, and and half or whole step modulations cause much consternation, not to mention the cost of the charts.

One other bit of advice and apologies if this is off topic, but enjoy each other like there is no tomorrow and each gig might be the last one.

Best wishes.
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Horns usually have no problem transposing on the fly. They're monophonic and usually read since they likely learned to play in school at some point.
 
#45
One band I play with couple
times a year, the bandleader has us tune whole step down for his voice. I don’t care for it, strings are a bit floppy, but once the gig starts I forget about it. If I played more often with this band I would rewrite the 80 plus charts so I could stay in E but not worth the effort and time.
 
#46
Is your band leader a guitar player?

I can't imagine a pianist BL ever suggesting such a thing; in almost 60 years as a bassist, I am used to the BL calling a tune, announcing the key, and counting it off. But, I've never had a BL suggest that anyone tune their instrument differently.

Band leaders typically played songs in the key that worked best for the vocalist, and I was expected to play the song in that key. All of the old pros from whom I learned expected/demanded everyone on the stand to be able to be able to play any song in any key.
 
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#48
Jazzdogg said:
Is your band leader a guitar player?

I can't imagine a pianist BL ever suggesting such a thing; in almost 60 years as a bassist, I am used to the BL calling a tune, announcing the key, and counting it off. But, I've never had a BL suggest that anyone tune their instrument differently.

Band leaders typically played songs in the key that worked best for the vocalist, and I was expected to play the song in that key. All of the old pros from whom I learned expected/demanded everyone on the stand to be able to be able to play any song in any key.
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I can see that in jazz, but I've never encountered "on the fly" transposing with a cover band.
 
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#50
Ugh. I've done this in several bands, not a fan. I know I'm just sensitive, but I can hear the difference and it bothers me on some tunes. Mostly when I sing harmonies.
I was in a successful working bands for years that did every song like the recording. I needed a bass tuned Eb for about 8 songs, luckily they were always grouped together to minimize down time.
 
#52
RichardW said:
We've been playing together for 15 years, we're all in our 60s now and the high parts on the vocals are getting a little tougher to reach. Our BL wants us to down tune a half step for the entire gig.

Thoughts on this? I assume my fingering will stay the same (except for open strings). Any advice on how to become accustomed to this approach?
Click to expand...

I would be down on the idea myself starting with probably having to redo the setup on my bass(es) that I use with the band. They may or may not play and/or sound right after the switch and I may not like the feel of them afterwards. I'm just guessing that it's only some of the songs that are a problem. Why not change keys on just the songs that have become difficult to sing or even just drop them altogether?
 
#53
Jazzdogg said:
Is your band leader a guitar player?

I can't imagine a pianist BL ever suggesting such a thing; in almost 60 years as a bassist, I am used to the BL calling a tune, announcing the key, and counting it off. But, I've never had a BL suggest that anyone tune their instrument differently.

Band leaders typically played songs in the key that worked best for the vocalist, and I was expected to play the song in that key. All of the old pros from whom I learned expected/demanded everyone on the stand to be able to be able to play any song in any key.
Click to expand...
Jazz/standards, sure, but a lot of guitar rockers don't even know what key a song is in, much less know how to transpose it, and a lot of their songs are built around guitar riffs that use open strings.
 
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#54
thisSNsucks said:
Just downtune each string a half step and play every exactly where you played it before. Lots of bands do it to help the singer.

Only possible downside is now your strings will be lower tension, so the feel will be different and you may need a little setup tweaking.

They do have pitch shift pedals that can let you drop tune but leave your instrument in regular tuning, but they can be a little glitchy or artifacty.
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This.

I played in a band that did this and I found that I did need to do some set up adjustment. I'm never crazy about having to do this because it requires retuning if I wanet to jam with others, but yeah, you don't even have to think about the half step drop.
 
#55
Just tune down and never think about it again. All your fingerings will be the same. The whole point of the band tuning down is that it lowers the key a bit without anyone having to even think about it.

Only thing that sucks about it IME, is that you forget you are tuned down when you go to practice at home, or jam with someone else.

Not a big deal to tune up and down a half step - IME.
 
#56
monkeyland said:
Retune instrument and play everything the same as you always have. Once you are in tune you can forget that you ever retuned in the first place.

One small thing, if you are doing this on the fly, you might carry a tool to adjust your truss rod a tiny bit. Some instruments will need a little tension added to the neck to compensate for the loss of string tension.
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Very well said about the tuning. Set it and forget it.

I personally would NOT recommend adjusting a truss rod on a gig. If you are worried about that, then tune down far in advance, let things settle. If your Bass needs a set up, then do it at home, plenty in advance of being on the gig.
 
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#58
After reading every post I'm confused if you mean that BL wants to detune the guitars and basses ½ step or wants everyone to just play ½ step lower.

Post #19 really confuses me, because the quote and the response both seem to contradict each other.
 
#59
I assume you mean detuning the instruments to E-flat, rather than transposing everything down a half-step with the same tuning. The former is simple, just a matter of retuning. The latter requires partially re-learning the songs in a different position, and the notes you played on open strings will need to be played elsewhere.

The only time the former should be a problem is if someone in the band (or audience) has "perfect pitch" ("The whole song is out of key!"), or if you have a keyboard without the ability to transpose. To them, everything will seem or actually be out of tune.

As said, the tone may change a bit, and the string tension will be a bit more slack, possibly enough to affect the neck curvature on some instruments. My aluminum neck Kramer won't care one bit, my Rickenbacker 4001 might have an issue with it.

Good luck with it, it's probably much easier than replacing the singer.
 
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#60
RichardW said:
We've been playing together for 15 years, we're all in our 60s now and the high parts on the vocals are getting a little tougher to reach. Our BL wants us to down tune a half step for the entire gig.

Thoughts on this? I assume my fingering will stay the same (except for open strings). Any advice on how to become accustomed to this approach?
Click to expand...

I would test it before you do it as you may need to tweak your setup. I showed up for a session a while back and got asked to tune down. Didn't work well with the bass I had. Open strings buzzed too much to be usable.
 

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