you would think.. but downtuning just a half step just adds a little bass on most lines..
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BL wants us to down tune half a step for next gig
- Thread starter RichardW
- Start date
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I'm grateful for the musical education I received and the musical life I enjoyed before I retired. I've especially enjoyed the opportunity to play with highly-skilled musicians from whom I could learn at each stage in my musical development. I have difficulty imagining what it must be like to play with people who don't know what they don't know, and seem indifferent to learning more.
My favorite harmonica players play chromatic harps and can play in any key without switching instruments.
Transposing down isn't a viable solution in many cases irrespective of one's technical ability to do it. Playing rock and blues-based tunes often involves using distortion and open strings which means that songs in the keys of E, A, D, and G are overrepresented. Transposing many of these songs down a semitone would necessitate inverting the lowest chords (or, as is often the case, interval if you're into classical theory pedantry and don't consider a power chord a "chord") which radically alters the feel of the song. On a bass that might also mean jumping up an octave that the bass is suddenly in perfect unison with the guitars whereas it would have been lower in the original. Transposing up via a capo works because it 1) functionally moves the nut thereby preserving the relationship between all of the strings and 2) usually doesn't require compromises on note choice.
Chromatic harps, much like melodicas, sound very different from the classic harps heard that 99% of players in the blues and rock idiom play (Hohners, from my understanding).My favorite harmonica players play chromatic harps and can play in any key without switching instruments.
A piano has over 7 octaves of range and one way to play each note. A guitar has roughly half of that and an average of three positions for any given note, not to mention a whole host of tonal considerations arising therefrom along with sympathetic ringing from unplayed strings. I don't think it's fair to compare the two.
I'm not averse to learning new things but I also have no desire to play musical Jeopardy when I'm at a gig.
Given your username and posts I'm going to guess that you have a lot of experience playing in a technically-demanding idiom that has vastly different expectations and norms than what others on this board play. I don't think your experience is representative of the average gigging musician.
I've been back and forth between standard tuning and 1/2 step down for at least 25 years. It's no big deal with the bass as long the bass is set up for whichever tuning I'm using. Not all my basses will set up well when I'm 1/2 down unless I also change strings..
The only problem it has caused me is singing harmonies. I sing some harmonies falsetto and some full voice. 1/2 step down makes some harmonies of whichI sing falsetto when in standard tuning,to low for me to sing in falsetto & they are right at the limit at what I can sing full voice.
The only problem it has caused me is singing harmonies. I sing some harmonies falsetto and some full voice. 1/2 step down makes some harmonies of whichI sing falsetto when in standard tuning,to low for me to sing in falsetto & they are right at the limit at what I can sing full voice.
This probably won't be an issue for most, but it is (sometimes) for me.
As the bassist and lead singer in my band, I've gotten used to playing and singing many songs in the exact key that they're recorded in. There have been some ocassions when we've decided to drop a song or two down a half step and that has sometimes led to difficulties with me singing on pitch.
Playing the bass correctly is easy because the fingering is exactly the same. But the human voice is more complicated. You can't just turn a knob and make your voice automatically drop ½ step in pitch without you thinking about it.
I've been a trained singer since I was a kid and each note that I sing has its own unique physical "feel" inside my throat and chest.
As one example, I've been playing and singing Black Sabbath songs for nearly 40 years. In the last band I was in, we decided to try playing "Iron Man", "Paranoid", and "War Pigs" dropped down from E to E flat.
It didn't work at all. I was constantly singing noticeably sharp, especially when coming in on a new verse. My voice sounded terrible and we had to give it up. I was just too used to singing these songs in E and the slight shift flat kept throwing me off.
Having said that, there were a few other songs that we played ½ step lower that I could sing just fine, but they were all songs that I hadn't sang before until I learned them in drop tuning.
Just something to consider.
As the bassist and lead singer in my band, I've gotten used to playing and singing many songs in the exact key that they're recorded in. There have been some ocassions when we've decided to drop a song or two down a half step and that has sometimes led to difficulties with me singing on pitch.
Playing the bass correctly is easy because the fingering is exactly the same. But the human voice is more complicated. You can't just turn a knob and make your voice automatically drop ½ step in pitch without you thinking about it.
I've been a trained singer since I was a kid and each note that I sing has its own unique physical "feel" inside my throat and chest.
As one example, I've been playing and singing Black Sabbath songs for nearly 40 years. In the last band I was in, we decided to try playing "Iron Man", "Paranoid", and "War Pigs" dropped down from E to E flat.
It didn't work at all. I was constantly singing noticeably sharp, especially when coming in on a new verse. My voice sounded terrible and we had to give it up. I was just too used to singing these songs in E and the slight shift flat kept throwing me off.
Having said that, there were a few other songs that we played ½ step lower that I could sing just fine, but they were all songs that I hadn't sang before until I learned them in drop tuning.
Just something to consider.
Our band is in our 70s and we've been dealing with this issue for some time now. However, what we have found is that it's easier to just replace songs once you can't do them in the key as learned.
Keep in mind we are 12 members, which isn't the same thing as a smaller ensemble, and some songs are easier to change keys than others. Down tuning is one way to address this problem, but long term it's a dead end. I'll also suggest that after 15 years, as much as you enjoy performing certain songs, your long time dedicated audience might appreciate some new songs.
Best wishes and keep on rocking.
What with capos, non standard tuning, and transposing instruments along with wildly varying degrees of musical knowledge, I find it best to ASK (and ask again for clarification). Basically, everyone does this stuff differently. Some guitarists will capo-up, not bother to tell you exactly how many frets, and then call out chords by their finger shape; others will reference the actual sounding pitches; some aren't sure.Unless they really meant E, like one of those filthy keyboard players.. (Yes, I know about the transpose key; I play keys too.). If nothing else, you'd want to clarify. "Do you actually mean E? ... "
I get what the OP is asking. Objectively it doesn't change anything if you're all on the same page, but it might throw you off while you're playing if you're thinking about it the wrong way.
Then you get to the old time fiddlers who know exactly one set of finger positions and have to retune when you go from the key of G to A.
So bring a Garland 4 lb split head rawhide mallet to the next rehearsal, and flatten some.
I think for the complete musician, working in genres where low notes below E or Eb are commonly needed (I'm talking about sounding pitch, not fingering), this is probably the real solution. Then you just play the tune in the key that it's called in. Play notes, not finger patterns.
I bet Toots, or Stevie, could play "Joy Spring" starting in Db and modulating a fifth every chorus, and not miss a note!My favorite harmonica players play chromatic harps and can play in any key without switching instruments.
UPDATE: so after a bunch of rehearsals at a half-step down, we all decided to go back to the original keys. Some tunes just felt super weird a half-step lower, and I guess we could have tossed those tunes, but whatever. I'm just as happy going back up a half-step.
