In Santa Cruz I played through a bassists Sunn 18" with a vintage Fender Bandmaster or Bassman 2x12" cab loaded with JBL D120s. (the small horizontal piggyback type) It had one of the first Peavey Bass heads on it. I know what's said here about mixing and I did play it in a practice room yet it sounded so rich, full range and surprisingly tubey. Tele bass!
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Blast From The Past : Sunn Folded Horns
- Thread starter Vince Klortho
- Start date
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
I haven't played through the Sunn version or any of the others, but I still play through Acoustic folded horns. I happen to like the sound and the projection. I used some kind of bass scoop for a while and it was awful. It had a front firing Gauss 15 that should have been a decent speaker, but the scoop that vented the back of the speaker just managed to cancel everything out. I sold the speaker and still have the cabinet. It's well made, but who would want an enormous self-cancelling black box? I'll probably put it on Craigslist for free or something.
I've never played a folded horn cabinet, I knew a couple of guys who had 301s. The closest I came to that was back in the early '80s, when "scooped" cabs were the rage.
Back then I used a Traynor Monoblock II with two JBL 4530 cabs (not genuine JBL cabs, but slightly shorter cabs based on the JBL design). I had them loaded up with EVM-15Bs. Because the 15s were front-loaded, you had sound right in front of the amp, and then you could cause colon irritation 30' out.
Back then I used a Traynor Monoblock II with two JBL 4530 cabs (not genuine JBL cabs, but slightly shorter cabs based on the JBL design). I had them loaded up with EVM-15Bs. Because the 15s were front-loaded, you had sound right in front of the amp, and then you could cause colon irritation 30' out.
As stated in other threads/ posts, I own a used Sunn 118-vh ...purchased in late 1979. Mine looks identical to pic as shown on left.
With my ACC 370 on top....I have never heard such a beautiful tone from a single cab.
No issues with highs.. HIGH D# on G-String is as loud-n-clear as open E.
I have not experimented with low B, as my cab is quite old.
I was asked once by a sound guy in a club NOT to run that cab as he feared the bloom would cause drinks to spill into patrons laps as the 'mouth' was at table level Seats /tables rose like in a theater. I assured him I was using the cab for tone..not to cause damage..he agreed..gig went well.
If anyone in metro A T L vicinity has one..fully functional..I will buy it if price is right. They come up for sale from time-to-time.. but shipping is always the deal breaker.
Also as previously stated.. no issues with hearing yourself on stage; unlike a 301 or similar w-horn cabs.
Never heard the 2115 sh..also comes as a single 15, but I presume they sound excellent as well..especially if powered by Cerwin/Vega or J B L . Maybe the new Emmanence neos with higher x-max and wattage would be an improvement?
Also I was advised NOT to place my 370 or any head atop that cab as the severe vibrations can cause damage to a head.
GAOLEE.. is the cab you don't wnat a 4 foot tall a 'sugar scoop' ? I do not need any more electronic 'lamp tables' in our home..but send me a pm and pics??
I tried to talk George into reissuing the 118-vh..but George is George.
I requested construction plans for the 118vh from Conrad Sundholm..MR SUNN.. but he said he didn't have any and that it was a difficult build.
I am interested in all versions of folded horn cabs including the Carlson as well.
With my ACC 370 on top....I have never heard such a beautiful tone from a single cab.
No issues with highs.. HIGH D# on G-String is as loud-n-clear as open E.
I have not experimented with low B, as my cab is quite old.
I was asked once by a sound guy in a club NOT to run that cab as he feared the bloom would cause drinks to spill into patrons laps as the 'mouth' was at table level Seats /tables rose like in a theater. I assured him I was using the cab for tone..not to cause damage..he agreed..gig went well.
If anyone in metro A T L vicinity has one..fully functional..I will buy it if price is right. They come up for sale from time-to-time.. but shipping is always the deal breaker.
Also as previously stated.. no issues with hearing yourself on stage; unlike a 301 or similar w-horn cabs.
Never heard the 2115 sh..also comes as a single 15, but I presume they sound excellent as well..especially if powered by Cerwin/Vega or J B L . Maybe the new Emmanence neos with higher x-max and wattage would be an improvement?
Also I was advised NOT to place my 370 or any head atop that cab as the severe vibrations can cause damage to a head.
GAOLEE.. is the cab you don't wnat a 4 foot tall a 'sugar scoop' ? I do not need any more electronic 'lamp tables' in our home..but send me a pm and pics??
I tried to talk George into reissuing the 118-vh..but George is George.
I requested construction plans for the 118vh from Conrad Sundholm..MR SUNN.. but he said he didn't have any and that it was a difficult build.
I am interested in all versions of folded horn cabs including the Carlson as well.
3 more stories...
I let a guy sit in..using my rig... some distance ..over 40 feet in back of club...I listened in awe...asked my wife if I was that l;od as ity was gut thumpin loud way in back of club...
Another time, I played in old train statin depot in atlanta..deep rectangle.. sound was as present 150 feet away as in stage. Volume was a hair above 2..with ACC suggetsed 'Beatle' EQ tone.
In a smaller club..manager kept asking us to turn down. Finally I showed him that my volume was at 1.75 and that my cab was now facing backward toward an adjacent cabinet..We shook hands...SUCKER... that cab coupled with the corner..wrapped around the club..woth glorious bass sound...ONLY WITH A HORN CABINET..
I let a guy sit in..using my rig... some distance ..over 40 feet in back of club...I listened in awe...asked my wife if I was that l;od as ity was gut thumpin loud way in back of club...
Another time, I played in old train statin depot in atlanta..deep rectangle.. sound was as present 150 feet away as in stage. Volume was a hair above 2..with ACC suggetsed 'Beatle' EQ tone.
In a smaller club..manager kept asking us to turn down. Finally I showed him that my volume was at 1.75 and that my cab was now facing backward toward an adjacent cabinet..We shook hands...SUCKER... that cab coupled with the corner..wrapped around the club..woth glorious bass sound...ONLY WITH A HORN CABINET..
I had one of the Sunn 18's, that I paired with a front loaded Road 18 on top, pushed by a Sunn concert head...never had to mike it, playing with two marshall running guitarists!
Only bass amps I have ever seen which humbled Marshall stacks were: ACC 361, 371, and double cab Sunn Coliseum..I am certain 320/408 would do same.
Front loaded Sunn 18's were equally loud.. just more mid- 'punchy' sounding....
Vintage Acoustic and Sunn..even Kustom..are 'front loaded 'heads.. all the volume between 1-5..after that ?...not so much more volume.. but you couldn't take any of them at LOUD volumes for very long.
In mid 70's, a friends front loaded , double cab Sunn Coliseum cruised at 2.0 while [D T Chastain's] Marshall stack sweated at 10..every time.. same for ACC 361's ...Marshalls were in doubt. ..
Front loaded Sunn 18's were equally loud.. just more mid- 'punchy' sounding....
Vintage Acoustic and Sunn..even Kustom..are 'front loaded 'heads.. all the volume between 1-5..after that ?...not so much more volume.. but you couldn't take any of them at LOUD volumes for very long.
In mid 70's, a friends front loaded , double cab Sunn Coliseum cruised at 2.0 while [D T Chastain's] Marshall stack sweated at 10..every time.. same for ACC 361's ...Marshalls were in doubt. ..
I own two Sunn 118H's. I believe they are replicas made a local sound company here in Buffalo. They originally had Gauss 18s in them but those turned to dust long ago.
Much like me.
So I replaced them with Eminence. They sound alright. Much better at a distance. I don't play through them but we sometimes use them as additional subs for the PA.
I'd sell 'em cheap if you want to visit Buffalo.
Much like me.
So I replaced them with Eminence. They sound alright. Much better at a distance. I don't play through them but we sometimes use them as additional subs for the PA.
I'd sell 'em cheap if you want to visit Buffalo.
There were times when the guitarist and I had to put our cheeks together and SHOUT into each other's ears to communicate. Stupid loud.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
GeoffB...
Story of my life...When a cab I want is nearby...no $$.. otherwise too far,like Buffalo N.Y.
...SIGHS... And yours would likely equal or exceed cost..just for shipping..probably @ or over 120 pounds?
Thanks for the offer, though!!
Story of my life...When a cab I want is nearby...no $$.. otherwise too far,like Buffalo N.Y.
...SIGHS... And yours would likely equal or exceed cost..just for shipping..probably @ or over 120 pounds?
Thanks for the offer, though!!
GAOLEE..
A single 320/408 takes care of a guitar stack ?? ..I am again impressed!
I knew a single cab 361 could....because I have seen a 361 do it...against 2 Marshall stacks.
I have never heard a 320/ 408 live.
When we saw Jaco in mid 1980's, he only used a wall of [3-4] double cab 361's. No 320/ 408's on stage,then.
A single 320/408 takes care of a guitar stack ?? ..I am again impressed!
I knew a single cab 361 could....because I have seen a 361 do it...against 2 Marshall stacks.
I have never heard a 320/ 408 live.
When we saw Jaco in mid 1980's, he only used a wall of [3-4] double cab 361's. No 320/ 408's on stage,then.
Yep, had a Sunn 118MH back in the day. Ran it with either a Yamaha 215 loaded with JBL E140s or a Traynor 610 with the baffle replaced and loaded with 3 Music Man 12s. Usually played an EB0 and ran it off a Cerwin Vega head that I can't recall the model of. It was a BG something-or-other. That was one awful amp. Kept blowing either fuses or transistors. Looking back, I probably abused that head more than any single piece of gear I ever owned. My memory is still a bit hazy from that era.
As I reall..main difference between MH and VH nominclature was:
MH= Magna[ Sunn economy priced] house brand speakers; VH= Cerwin/ Vega 4 Ohm speakers. C/V probably handled more wattage, lower frequency range.
Sunn offered same speaker options[ Magna or C/V ] in front loaded 1x18 cabs as well.
MH= Magna[ Sunn economy priced] house brand speakers; VH= Cerwin/ Vega 4 Ohm speakers. C/V probably handled more wattage, lower frequency range.
Sunn offered same speaker options[ Magna or C/V ] in front loaded 1x18 cabs as well.
In mid 1970's, I got a great deal on two 2x15 Sunn Magna cabs..recall now that Magna was same as C T S. After the band I bought them for hit the road..without me.. I sold them.
Those Magna cabs looked awesome and were 4-ohm, but my single 118-vh sounds immensely better to me than both of the Magna cabs.
Those Magna cabs looked awesome and were 4-ohm, but my single 118-vh sounds immensely better to me than both of the Magna cabs.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
I have never had the 320 turned up much. I don't think the pots are front loaded like they are on a 370, so you would expect it to take a higher setting on the volume to get the same effect, but it packs plenty of wallop. I think it has a sweeter sound than the 370, more like a 360. I may part with the 320/408 one of these days, but the original 360 will be much harder to let go of, just because it is what it is. The new one has pretty much rendered both of the old ones obsolete in a way nothing else could, though. I haven't had a chance to see what it does facing off against three loud guitars, but that's coming up in January. In the mean time, it has been making the upright louder on a regular basis.
Are the current Cerwin Vega PA subwoofers (18/horn) useable for bass guitar?What is the closest currently made cabinet like the scooped Sunns? John Entwistle used a 15 horn with the speaker front-firing . They were huge and very efficient. On top were 212 cabinets that were similar. They were Ashdown-built.
Old boxes like these probably appeal to the 2nd Harmonic crowd.
For low E (41 Hz) the 2nd harmonic is 82 Hz.
The shortest quarter-wave horn path that can produce 82 Hz is 41.26 inches.
The shorter the path, the higher the low frequency cut-off.
A square mouth 41.26 inches on each side will fully produce 82 Hz.
Other than a trip down Memory Lane, these boxes are totally obsolete.
There is no good reason to use a 15" driver in a bass horn.
Rear loading horns where the driver front is open to the air, are relatively poor performers.
Yes, JBL made the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. No, JBL no longer makes these.
The JBL 4530 is a quarter-wave horn to 40 Hz.
It weighs 120 pounds without driver.
Response drops like a rock below 60 Hz.
Other than nostalgia, those wanting a bass horn should consider a modern design.
The Titan39 and Titan48 will both snuff any of these old designs, and do it with less weight.
The Punisher horns cater more to the 2nd harmonic crowd, with their higher cutoff frequency and shorter path.
For low E (41 Hz) the 2nd harmonic is 82 Hz.
The shortest quarter-wave horn path that can produce 82 Hz is 41.26 inches.
The shorter the path, the higher the low frequency cut-off.
A square mouth 41.26 inches on each side will fully produce 82 Hz.
Other than a trip down Memory Lane, these boxes are totally obsolete.
There is no good reason to use a 15" driver in a bass horn.
Rear loading horns where the driver front is open to the air, are relatively poor performers.
Yes, JBL made the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. No, JBL no longer makes these.
The JBL 4530 is a quarter-wave horn to 40 Hz.
It weighs 120 pounds without driver.
Response drops like a rock below 60 Hz.
Other than nostalgia, those wanting a bass horn should consider a modern design.
The Titan39 and Titan48 will both snuff any of these old designs, and do it with less weight.
The Punisher horns cater more to the 2nd harmonic crowd, with their higher cutoff frequency and shorter path.
When I went "pro" in '74, I bought new 370/301 because it was one of the few rigs I could always hear and feel when other guys played one.
After about a month of not hearing anything remotely articulate from my bass on stage, I added a sunn concert lead amp with 6 10"s. That worked, but so did I...moving all that stuff!
I later tried the acoustic cab + homebuilt 2 10 cab and crown power, but that was horrible in its own way.
By '76 I was still using 2 amps, a Marshall major into a Sunn 215BH w/ JBLs for lows and a 100W marshall halfstack for highs. That was the first good sounding rig I had. At the time I didn't realize it, but all tube power probably had a lot to do with it.
After about a month of not hearing anything remotely articulate from my bass on stage, I added a sunn concert lead amp with 6 10"s. That worked, but so did I...moving all that stuff!
I later tried the acoustic cab + homebuilt 2 10 cab and crown power, but that was horrible in its own way.
By '76 I was still using 2 amps, a Marshall major into a Sunn 215BH w/ JBLs for lows and a 100W marshall halfstack for highs. That was the first good sounding rig I had. At the time I didn't realize it, but all tube power probably had a lot to do with it.
