Double Bass blending pickup and mic help

[mcfrankson]

I have a variety of questions on this issue as I've never done it before. How's it done really? I presently have a realist and I'm looking to buy a dpa 4099. How would I blend the two? I have an amp with 2 inputs I don't know if that helps or is required or what. How's it done?

 

[hensonbass]

Very few two channel amps can do this: Euphonic Audio, Acoustic Image, Markbass..

Your two channel amp may or may not work:

1. It needs at least one XLR input for your microphone or you need to use an low to high impedance adapter. This does not guarantee that the mic will sound good through the amp especially if the eq is not voiced to eliminate problem frequencies.

2. Does one channel have at least a 1MegOHM impedance input for the Realist? Ultimately it matters how it sounds to you but this is a generalization.

3. Does your amp have a way of phase flipping one of the channels in case the two signals are canceling each other out? I think this is VERY IMPORTANT IME.

If NO is the answer for questions 2 and 3 then you could get a Fdeck HPF pre for the Realist and take care of those issues.

Otherwise you can get a dedicated two channel blending preamp like the Headway EDB-1 and nail it from the get-go. There are other preamps but I think the Headway is the best.

 

[William Hoffman]

everything he said, +2.

generally speaking, the mic and the Realist need to be EQ'd slightly differently.

mics in general can be prone to the "proximity effect" and in any event are prone to feedback of lower frequencies. piezo pickups like the Realist are less prone to feedback. if you have an AI or EA head or an F-Deck, you can also use the HPF to reduce feedback and boominess.

to blend a mic with a piezo, using your two channeled amp, adjust the EQ on each channel:

1. for the pickup, increase the bass knob from 12 o'clock to 1 or 2 o'clock, and cut the mids and treble slightly, to taste.

2. for the mic, cut the bass to 11 or 10 o'clock and increase the treble ever so slightly.

my experience is that you'll get good bass tones from the Realist, but the Realist lacks the true acoustic sound you can get from the mic. just a little bit of mic is needed to compensate for that. ultimately, i usually give the mic less gain/volume than the pickup.

if you don't have an F-Deck for use with piezo pickups, get one. it's the best little gizmo you'll ever buy and the best deal on the market.

one other thing: if you use a PA, run the mic straight to the PA and use the pickup only on your amp on stage as a monitor.

 

[dbass87]

I know this is an old thread, but my question goes along with this, only I don't have a 2 channel amp..So I was wondering, will running a Rev Solo (with an Fdeck) through a GK amp sound decent blended with just an SM58 or something simple through the PA? William Hoffman said above that if using a PA, run that through the house and only use the amp for an on-stage monitor. But couldn't you blend the DI from the amp with the mic in the PA, or would this come out weird? And does it depend on the size of the gig whether or not you run the DI through the house? I haven't really had the opp. to experiment with this yet...

 

[dbass87]

I know this is an old thread, but my question goes along with this, only I don't have a 2 channel amp..So I was wondering, will running a Rev Solo (with an Fdeck) through a GK amp sound decent blended with just an SM58 or something simple through the PA? William Hoffman said above that if using a PA, run that through the house and only use the amp for an on-stage monitor. But couldn't you blend the DI from the amp with the mic in the PA, or would this come out weird? And does it depend on the size of the gig whether or not you run the DI through the house? I haven't really had the opp. to experiment with this yet...

anyone have input on this question ^ ?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I know this is an old thread, but my question goes along with this, only I don't have a 2 channel amp..So I was wondering, will running a Rev Solo (with an Fdeck) through a GK amp sound decent blended with just an SM58 or something simple through the PA?

That should sound just fine.

William Hoffman said above that if using a PA, run that through the house and only use the amp for an on-stage monitor. But couldn't you blend the DI from the amp with the mic in the PA, or would this come out weird?

You could do it if the board has enough free channels.

And does it depend on the size of the gig whether or not you run the DI through the house? I haven't really had the opp. to experiment with this yet...

Mostly, it's just what the soundman decides he wants to do, which is a whole other can of worms. You also have to be willing to experiment and find out what you like. Amp onstage and mic through the PA is a great place to start.

 

[dbass87]

That should sound just fine.



You could do it if the board has enough free channels.



Mostly, it's just what the soundman decides he wants to do, which is a whole other can of worms. You also have to be willing to experiment and find out what you like. Amp onstage and mic through the PA is a great place to start.

So if the soundman has limited channels, and can only afford you one, and it's a large gig, you're saying your best bet is to put the mic through the PA, but should you try to boost your amp as much as possible to reinforce the sound and blend a little, or just worry about using it for onstage volume? Also, will a 58 be more problematic as far as boominess in the house than some clip-on mic like the AMT?

 

[Michael Glynn]

So if the soundman has limited channels, and can only afford you one, and it's a large gig, you're saying your best bet is to put the mic through the PA, but should you try to boost your amp as much as possible to reinforce the sound and blend a little, or just worry about using it for onstage volume? Also, will a 58 be more problematic as far as boominess in the house than some clip-on mic like the AMT?

This is what I usually try to do. The key is to be very careful about putting the mic signal into any stage monitors. So basically, your amp will be the only monitor. I usually try to only turn up my amp enough so that it is effective as a monitor on stage. Of course, because it is facing out, the audience will hear it, but if there is someone doing sound I leave up to them to get the sound in the house where it needs to be using the mic signal. Depending on the gig, it might not work and the sound guy might want to take a line from the pickup for the house and/or monitors.

 

[Ric Vice]

So if the soundman has limited channels, and can only afford you one, and it's a large gig, you're saying your best bet is to put the mic through the PA, but should you try to boost your amp as much as possible to reinforce the sound and blend a little, or just worry about using it for onstage volume? Also, will a 58 be more problematic as far as boominess in the house than some clip-on mic like the AMT?

Even with a really excellent mic like the AMT or DPA 4099 being in close proximity to the Drum Kit or Guitar usually results in their sound being picked up by the bass mic or resonating through your instrument. One of the reasons that SM 58's work fairly well is that they aren't as hot as the AMT. A lot depends on how willing the sound engineer is to getting it right. IMHO the DPA 4099 has better off axis rejection so it's easier to capture the bass sound.

Ric

 

[dbass87]

Even with a really excellent mic like the AMT or DPA 4099 being in close proximity to the Drum Kit or Guitar usually results in their sound being picked up by the bass mic or resonating through your instrument. One of the reasons that SM 58's work fairly well is that they aren't as hot as the AMT. A lot depends on how willing the sound engineer is to getting it right. IMHO the DPA 4099 has better off axis rejection so it's easier to capture the bass sound.

Ric

ok cool, so in some ways a 58 is better, maybe not in terms of complete acoustic representation (?) but better in shunning invading sounds

 

[aledeville]

I just bought an Acousti Image Clarus 2r (yay!) and I'm uncertain whether picking just a random mic - because low end response doesn't really matter since the Wilson pickups have a LOT of those frequencies - or if I should buy a specific one (my dream is the EV20, but that's way too expensive).

How do you handle the mic anyway? In front of the f-holes? How do you fix it?
I've found some very interesting techniques:

The H-Clamp: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f4/poor-mans-mic-setup-sm-57-four-elastics-482357/
Mic clap thing: http://digilander.libero.it/tweakacoustic/bridge clamp4
and of course the legendary: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f4/poor-mans-mic-setup-sm-57-four-elastics-482357/

How do you do it?
I'm really excited about the AI. It's coming next week I think!