- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,075
- 5
- 221,153
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
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Blown ACME speakers
- Thread starter james condino
- Start date
A 900 W amp can be adjusted to safely drive a low power speaker, but the potential is still there to damage the speaker by over powering, whether by accident, or ignorance.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,075
- 5
- 221,153
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Years ago when I got my Acme Low B, I was using one side of a Crown amp to drive it.
I asked Andy if I could run the amp bridged, 1100 watts into 4 ohm. He told me I could if I was
very careful. He gave me 3 rules
1. Never, ever loan it out.
2. Keep my ears wide open, and listen, listen, listen.
3. Do not, repeat, do not use alcohol.
I retired the Crown to our rehearsal space and have been using either a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.2, or a
Streamliner 600 since.
I am sure Andy has seen just about every form of failure, a majority related to the failure to follow his 3 Rules.
I asked Andy if I could run the amp bridged, 1100 watts into 4 ohm. He told me I could if I was
very careful. He gave me 3 rules
1. Never, ever loan it out.
2. Keep my ears wide open, and listen, listen, listen.
3. Do not, repeat, do not use alcohol.
I retired the Crown to our rehearsal space and have been using either a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.2, or a
Streamliner 600 since.
I am sure Andy has seen just about every form of failure, a majority related to the failure to follow his 3 Rules.
Just a curious question. Do you remember what song you were playing when the speaker went off the cliff?
I can remember back in the 70's, when drinking while playing a gig, the more I drank, the lower the volume sounded, hence the higher I pushed the amp.
I picked up a squeeky clean ACME B2 cab last week off facebook marketplace for $80 (!!!!!!!!) with two blown drivers and went ahead and replaced both of those with new drivers from Andy this week. These two seemed to be blown different from the other two I posted- no visual signs, but obvious sonic crunchy grumbling mess.
I'm very excited for an outdoor quartet gig tomorrow night with the B2 & two B1s (4x10) all sporting brand new drivers plus a new to me Thunderfunk head!!!
I'm very excited for an outdoor quartet gig tomorrow night with the B2 & two B1s (4x10) all sporting brand new drivers plus a new to me Thunderfunk head!!!
How does the speaker load work out?
If the B1's are 8 ohms each, and the B2 8 ohms, you end up with 2.67 ohms total. If I'm not mistaken, the Thunderfunk is only capable of driving a minimum 4 ohms. Check first before you potentially cause damage.
4x10 modular line array sounds very cool -- and it will be good to spread the power out to more speakers on louder gigs -- but if you're running the 2x10 and one or two of the 1x10s with a single, monoblock amp (most bass amps, including the T-funk), you'll want the 2x10 to be 4 Ohms to balance the load among the speakers properly with the 8 Ohm 1x10s.
Since this results in a sub-4 Ohm load, you'll want to be sure the amp will handle that safely. Among the Thunderfunk amps, as far as I know, the TFB 750 and 800 will do 2 Ohms, while the 550 and lower-numbered models are 4 Ohms minimum. (There was, I believe, a less common TFB 600 -- not sure about that one.)
If the cabs are all 8 Ohms, you could run the 1x10s off one side of a power amp and the 2x10 off the other and adjust the levels so that the sides are matched for output.
If the 2x10 is 8 Ohms and I was planning to run it and one or both of the 1x10s with a mono amp, I'd ask Andy Lewis what would be involved in making it a 4 Ohm cab -- two 8 Ohm drivers, I'd guess, but maybe also a different crossover.
Hope it all comes together well for you!
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Since the latest ACME thread went south, I wanted to make a positive comment about ACME cabs to bring some balance to the subject. My first experience with ACME was when I saw a jazz fusion band in a large, heated tent and the guy was playing a Fender Jazz through a single ACME 10" with what a believe was a Walter Woods amp (square little red thing). I was stunned at the volume and tone this little cab was putting out. It was perfect tone for what they were playing also, kinda like Jeff Berlin's tone on the first Bruford album. Every note was focused and clear with just a touch of wool. Perfect.
My second is just the Bass Gear's review of the 112 Full Range, which was built as a standalone cab or a perfect complement to the 112 Flatwound (sub with no tweeter). That review was GLOWING for both sound and built quality. "Very balanced from bottom to top" and "very precise throughout the mid-range". "Huge sounding when stacked on the 112 Flatwound". I like the fact he uses a dome tweeter also, which tend to be smoother yet still detailed.
They used a great amp to test it, the GB ShuttleMAX 12.0, but the point is they are great cabs. Andy is on the front cover, issue number 8. It's a great issue as they review the Carvin SB4000, the Glock Heart-Rock II, and various fEARful cabs. In a direct comparison to the fEARful 12/6/1, the ACME Full Range held its own as it was more a matter of taste between the two and not output or overall quality. That's it.
My second is just the Bass Gear's review of the 112 Full Range, which was built as a standalone cab or a perfect complement to the 112 Flatwound (sub with no tweeter). That review was GLOWING for both sound and built quality. "Very balanced from bottom to top" and "very precise throughout the mid-range". "Huge sounding when stacked on the 112 Flatwound". I like the fact he uses a dome tweeter also, which tend to be smoother yet still detailed.
They used a great amp to test it, the GB ShuttleMAX 12.0, but the point is they are great cabs. Andy is on the front cover, issue number 8. It's a great issue as they review the Carvin SB4000, the Glock Heart-Rock II, and various fEARful cabs. In a direct comparison to the fEARful 12/6/1, the ACME Full Range held its own as it was more a matter of taste between the two and not output or overall quality. That's it.
I actually owned that album back in the day, it's still around the house somewhere.
That tone is not my cuppa tea but yeah he was a monster player. For me Holdsworth was the real draw in that band.
I kind of got turned off about Berlin from his articles in Guitar Player magazine, he came off as kind of a jerk.
Sure really talented guys often have egos but I never got that impression from Stanley Clarke, Percy Jones, etc.
But yeah Berlin, you could not question his playing, that much is for sure.
Analogeezer
His tone changed after the first album when he recorded his jazz straight into an Ampeg 12" combo. It was more organic then. Later he played more chords and used chorus effects. He still is controversial when it comes to learning how to play. He doesn't like shortcuts and a lot of theory. To each his own.
I didn't see the other thread, but all I can say about any prospective Acme haters is "user error". I gigged the snot out of my S2 B1 for over two decades, even outdoors much like the gig you described, and with proper placement it never let me down. Owned a B112FW for a while as well, but it overwhelmed my small apartment at the time, and was more than I needed, but I dream of a B1/B112 stack someday…
Those speakers sure look a lot like Eminence BP102's.
I'm not suggesting they are just a BP102 but maybe he has Eminence make him an OEM version to his specs?
BP102's are rated at 200 watts, have a frequency response down to 40 Hz and a fS of 35 Hz. They are also kind of inefficient (91.8 dB).
Great drivers I own a pair I put into a homebuilt 2 x 10" cabinet. I will say they are kinda inefficient (I typically use that cabinet with an old amp that only puts 125 watts into them)
I can't think of a cab builder (even the big guys) who make the frames, the cones, the voice coils, the whole bit.
So does this guy actually do that or not?
Analogeezer
Eminence builds the speakers to Andy's specifications, and they won't sell you one. Replacements come from Acme.
G-K builds their own speakers entirely.
That is what I thought.
Pretty common in the OEM industry, I know the Celestions RevSound puts in their cabinets are OEM models that you can look them up if you have the model number but they don't sell the over the counter.
Makes a lot of sense really for an OEM speaker maker; they don't want someone buying "Acme Speakers" from them to get the "Acme Sound" only to be disappointed when they put them in their Seismic Audio cab.
Also they can gear up to produce say a batch of them for a speaker builder when they order some.
Not a knock on Acme, just pointing out they look like the stock BP102's I have and have and those speakers have similar characteristics to an Acme cabinet (good LF response, but not high efficiency).
Analogeezer
I've been playing bass since 1969 and only blown 1 speaker. It was a 15" in a PV cab. Lots of alcohol was involved.............lol
I used to blow a JBL E-140 (I had two, mounted in single 15" cabinets) about once a year; but I was trying to keep up with a guy with initially one THEN TWO 100 watt Marshall full stacks.
The amp I was using was an Acoustic 220, which into two 8 ohm cabinets put out 125 watts; at TEN PERCENT THD.
After I switched to a rig with a preamp and a separate power amp (a QSC Series One 1400 - so 200 watts per cab instead of 75, not to mention a much cleaner signal at high levels) I never blew another speaker.
The Acoustic of course had no clip indicator but I am pretty sure I just kept driving it into heavy clipping which then fried the voice coils. I never had a E-140 fail mechanically, it was always burnt voice coils.
Thanks to their great warranty (five years) I only had to pay for the last couple of recones at the end (they were under warranty until 1987).
Still have the drivers, put them into a pair of homemade low end cabinets (which are technically EV Eliminator designs.....the ones from yes 1969). I use them as low end cabinets with a bi-amped rehearsal PA, hit them with 500 watts a piece from a QSC amp and for what those cabinets are they sound great.
Analogeezer
The speaker Andy uses in the 112 Full Range is a "proprietary custom version of the Eminence Kappalite" 3012 HO, held in place by 8 bolts with threaded inserts. That's a quality touch. Everything about it sounds top notch quite frankly. Tom Bowlus took the cab apart and provided the report.
