Or there is this solution from anothe thread regarding something called Speaker Mate [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
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Boutique 3-way 115 and 215 on a budget
- Thread starter greenboy
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Or there is this solution from anothe thread regarding something called Speaker Mate [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I just have one question. Why are you guys contemplating swapping the speakers out the second you get them? Carvin uses eminence speakers. I dont know if they use the LF's or not but they are eminence. I havent personally played through any of those cab but i have rocked out on a few of Carvins 15's in the past including there PB200-15 practice amp(own it), an older redline series 15", and 2 of there 2 way 15" horn loaded mains that they used to sell around 1990-92. All of them had amazing thump and definition. Throw an overdrive in the mix and you get a vicious guteral thump out of the low end. Carvin's 15's have an amazing frequency range as well, there high end response is usually crisp with no fall off. IME there 15 cabinets do better in there high end than some tens. The lows usually only get competition from another 15 in a bigger box or by 18's. Think it over guys.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Yeah, I mentioned them too, though I don't know if you would end up with a 4-ohm to maimize wattage.
Do you have a third cab or something that you were planning on running? Because running a 4-ohm 210 on one side with the input gain lower so as not to overpower it would work fine, and with a Kapplite-equipped Carvin 115 on the other with full input gain you'd have a hella lot of SPL there. Unless you are going for subwoofer use, it'll be a perfect match.
If you go to the website for the SpeakerMate and look at the diagrams for Model 5, it shows some examples of what the amp sees for ohms. So long as it's not below 4 it should be ok. I don't know how the power would be distributed b/w the different cabs though.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
That's just a brand name. Eminence has all descriptions of drivers, with different power ratings, different excursion capabilites. And in this case, ALSO lower weight. The brand name itself isn't the determinant on whether a driver is good or not.
You should get WinISD Pro and the Eminence datasheets and check things out. Not all Eminence drivers have the same capabilities. The Kappalites have a decided advantage in those box volumes at the same tunings Carvin would be using.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Just wanted to add this. Those are exceptional designs at the price. Good internal volume, great crossover design, improved use of lightweight thinner baltic birch and bracing, good footrprints. And upgrading the woofers - especially for bass guitar use - not only makes them lighter, but as the thread title implies takes them into the realm of boutique high-performance cabs or beyond, without the price. Even a lot of boutique cabs don't have woofers with excursion capabilities that in synch with their thermal ratings.
I realize that eminence is just a brand name and they have different models of speakers for different applications. But the way I see it is, unless you are playing a chapman stick or you are tuned to say G or F#(low), there is usually no need for a higher excursion speaker. As far as tuning goes, I'm pretty sure Carvin didnt just build a box and stuff some speakers in it. The box is more than likely tuned to those speakers, not saying different speakers wouldnt do better, but whats the real advantage to a half db or another mm of xmax. And quite honestly I've looked at all the Deltalites, Kappalites, LF's, Kappa pro's, Sigma pro's, and a few other eminence brand speakers for replacement options when the time comes. The LF's are the only one's I considered for replacement speakers due to there power handling, price, and xmax. Any of the lite speakers from eminence i consider junk unless you are building a small low power practice amp or jam rig that wont see a lot heavy handed ripping. The reason I consider the lites junk is I've cooked two set's of deltalite 12's within a year, so I'm not happy with them. I'm not trying to take away your right to do whatever it is that you wanna do, it just seems pretty odd and highly uneffective to buy a cabinet that already has speakers in it, to just pull the speakers out and toss them in the trash and replace them with something thats barely better. Now if you get the cab and run the dog piss out of it and the speakers blow, then by all means replace them with something better.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
TyronPotamkin
Read back into the thread. The Kappalites operate well in the same box volumes and tunings the cabs have. That makes them an ideal fit. Yesterday I talked to a Carvin rep who agreed. You seem to think Carvin makes perfect boxes. But like any other manufacturer, they also design their cabs to a price point. Trading out drivers simply moves the bar to another price point, and can take the performance to a new place.
Take excursion. Even with just a low E or B string and flat EQ, or a band that's running more than vocals through their mains in full range, it's easy enough to hit full excursion and beyond even when running a power amp that's got a lower RMS rating than the cabs do. A lot of these drivers hit full excursion with only 33% of their thermal rating. Which means that their excursion capability may be keeping one from fully using their power amp and getting more SPL. If you can run more wattage into the cabs consistently without having to worry about bandwidth content, you can run safer and louder and more clear.
It's really that simple.
Read back into the thread. The Kappalites operate well in the same box volumes and tunings the cabs have. That makes them an ideal fit. Yesterday I talked to a Carvin rep who agreed. You seem to think Carvin makes perfect boxes. But like any other manufacturer, they also design their cabs to a price point. Trading out drivers simply moves the bar to another price point, and can take the performance to a new place.
Take excursion. Even with just a low E or B string and flat EQ, or a band that's running more than vocals through their mains in full range, it's easy enough to hit full excursion and beyond even when running a power amp that's got a lower RMS rating than the cabs do. A lot of these drivers hit full excursion with only 33% of their thermal rating. Which means that their excursion capability may be keeping one from fully using their power amp and getting more SPL. If you can run more wattage into the cabs consistently without having to worry about bandwidth content, you can run safer and louder and more clear.
It's really that simple.
I'm not saying Carvin builds the perfect box(is there really a perfect one?) and I have read the entire thread so I'm not just jumping in and running my face. Carvin uses effective speakers in their cabinets, which their bass cabinets and mains use the same woofers for the most part. I also understand that Carvin does install less than superior speakers their systems, but they are not trash can speakers by any means until they blow up.
Now I feel it would be way more cost effective if you could get the cabinets without the 15's so you could install which ever speaker you prefer. Will carvin do this? I dont know, I'm sure a sales rep or tech would tell you. Again I'm not trying to bust your chops(it sure seems like it though).
Now I feel it would be way more cost effective if you could get the cabinets without the 15's so you could install which ever speaker you prefer. Will carvin do this? I dont know, I'm sure a sales rep or tech would tell you. Again I'm not trying to bust your chops(it sure seems like it though).
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
First thing I did when noticing how great these cabs appeared to be designed was pull up my WinISD Pro files on the Carvin 15" drivers (which are different in the PA cabs than the bass cabs by the way). 30 seconds there told me that it was a great fit and improvement to do Kappalite 3015LF - or lead-sled longer-excursion woofers for that matter, but there'd be a weight increase then.
And the reason I talked to a Carvin rep was to see if they'd sell me the cabs sans woofers (no). He was savvy in T-S specs and had looked at Kappalites himself. They or similar may show up in future products actually, but he said not to hold my breath.
It's not that big of deal to me. The total cost for that level and flavor of perfomance would still undercut custom-built or boutique solutions considerably. And the stock drivers can occupy other boxes or get sold raw.
And the reason I talked to a Carvin rep was to see if they'd sell me the cabs sans woofers (no). He was savvy in T-S specs and had looked at Kappalites himself. They or similar may show up in future products actually, but he said not to hold my breath.
It's not that big of deal to me. The total cost for that level and flavor of perfomance would still undercut custom-built or boutique solutions considerably. And the stock drivers can occupy other boxes or get sold raw.
Well it certainly shows that you have done a fair bit more research than I have, thank you for enlightening me. With that said, the boats floatin' man, jump on it
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Actually I discovered the potential for these while waiting for some more esoteric driver price quotes, to use in designs I've been pondering and working on to replace my current long-standing rig choices. That and if I could get the type of rig I want without the annoying woodwork... ; }
I'm still weighing which set of choices will become my new all-purpose modular cab selection, matching and getting best SPL with the power and preamps I already have.
I just thought I'd share what is looking like a few very capable and price-effective contenders. And real time- and labor-shavers too. The size of boxes some of the custom guys are using aren't large enough for the drivers for the type of performance I desire, and they want to much upcharge for boxes outside their stock selection. Cabs like that sacrifice smooth low-end extension that basically wastes driver potential and puts too big of a mid/upper bass hump into the equation, which to me sounds boomy and less articulate.
I'm still weighing which set of choices will become my new all-purpose modular cab selection, matching and getting best SPL with the power and preamps I already have.
I just thought I'd share what is looking like a few very capable and price-effective contenders. And real time- and labor-shavers too. The size of boxes some of the custom guys are using aren't large enough for the drivers for the type of performance I desire, and they want to much upcharge for boxes outside their stock selection. Cabs like that sacrifice smooth low-end extension that basically wastes driver potential and puts too big of a mid/upper bass hump into the equation, which to me sounds boomy and less articulate.
That depends. Sometimes, manufacturers use different drivers for the active versions. Typically, these will be, for example, a 4 ohm VC in the cone, so a "smaller" power section will generate the stated/rated power. Replace that driver with an 8 ohm, and you've lost "3dB", +/-. One thing folks are not taking into consideration here is that IF the passive crossovers are REALLY designed for THESE drivers, and not just a generic "4 ohm" for the 2x15 LF section, then swapping out the stock cones for Kappalites might cause strangeness. Crossovers that are designed for specific drivers tend to take those drivers' (plural possesive....) impedance/reactance at/around the desired cross frequency into account. Dunno if this is the case or not with these.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Well, the actual advantage that BassikLee didn't mention is that if I put 3015LF in it can easily be fed with 800 watts in the frequency band most drivers poop out at before running out of excursion, and that's probably with similar power compression the stock drivers experience at 300 watts. That's more dB right there. That means the mid driver is more likely to be driven to its capacity, etc.
Lots of headroom, less average power compression, maybe 10 pounds less weight, but without the niceties the powered versions have, which are actually quite tempting.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Crossover point at 500 Hz. For just about any 15" woofer these are non-issues at that frequency. And these are drivbers with similar charts for impedance etc as well as being very close in sensitivity. Pretty much a non-issue in such a case. If the corssover was at a point where the drivers varied, nearer their acceptable ranges, then that would be something...
Last night I noticed that the BR115 is 4 ohms (not 8 as I had originally thought) and the Kappalite 3015LF is 8 ohms.
I think at one time Anthony Jackson ran a rig similar to what's being suggested here (maybe he still does?).
I think he ran a Meyer Sound CQ1 (active PA speaker) with a preamp.
I think this is great idea, essentially you would be getting, let say "Accugroove sound" while not paying $1000~$1600 for it.
Even after swapping out the drivers you'd still be ahead.
I've had the same thoughts for a couple of months...
I think he ran a Meyer Sound CQ1 (active PA speaker) with a preamp.
I think this is great idea, essentially you would be getting, let say "Accugroove sound" while not paying $1000~$1600 for it.
Even after swapping out the drivers you'd still be ahead.
I've had the same thoughts for a couple of months...
I sent an email to BLTSound to see if there was a possibility of of the 3015LF available in a 4 ohm version. This is the response I received:
"The KappaLite 3015LF is not available in 4 ohms however there is a Basslite C2515 which is 4 ohm."
Now, what is already loaded in the BR115?
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