Double Bass Bow--Black Hair

[gypsydjango]

I have recently had a bow re-hair to black hair. I have been used to white hair.
My questions:
Does black hair take more 'effort' to produce a note---more arm weight?
Does new hair take a lot of rosin to produce the string being played?
Do you feel the difference between black & white hair?

Your knowledge welcome

Signed
'Novice'

 

[wathaet]

White hair is not monolithic. It depends which batch of hair. Same goes for black hair.

 

[Sean Riddle]

Treat it just as you would playing a bow with white hair. Heck for me it feels easier to play than white hair, but that might be a setup thing as I use a full set of Spirocores and have been recently using Pops year round. But I don’t use different techniques for different bow hair.
When it comes to the amount of rosin used, unless the luthier put a coat of something on before you got it you’re gonna need to swipe a little extra on to help break in the new bow hair. After that go back to 1-2 swipes when it’s needed.

 

[Lee Moses]

Does black hair take more 'effort' to produce a note---more arm weight?

Absolutely not.

Does new hair take a lot of rosin to produce the string being played?

It depends. IME that has more to do with who did the rehair and how they did it.

Do you feel the difference between black & white hair?

Generally, yes. Black hair tends to be more grabby and coarse, white hair tends to be smoother.

 

[David Potts]

My current hair is white and too fine for Nymans rosin. My next will be black. Horse hair isn't a straight filament like fishing line. Under a microscope it looks like a whole lot of nodules joined together. I understand that the rosin builds up between the nodules. Coarser hair suits the bass and its rosin because the strings are heavier. As part of the rehairing process the luthier often rubs powdered rosin into the tensioned hair at the end. If not use a little more rosin and a little more often.

Once upon a time we used "pepper and salt" hair, a mixture of black and white. String Emporium"s Finale bows come like this.

 

[Don Kasper]

My current hair is white and too fine for Nymans rosin. My next will be black. Horse hair isn't a straight filament like fishing line. Under a microscope it looks like a whole lot of nodules joined together. I understand that the rosin builds up between the nodules. Coarser hair suits the bass and its rosin because the strings are heavier. As part of the rehairing process the luthier often rubs powdered rosin into the tensioned hair at the end. If not use a little more rosin and a little more often.

Once upon a time we used "pepper and salt" hair, a mixture of black and white. String Emporium"s Finale bows come like this.

Hi David,
I've used Black hair (or Salt 'N Pepper) for the last few decades, and I agree that I get better "traction" with Black hair. (I use a hybrid of Pops/Nyman, about 50/50.)
Re: "rosin build up.." on the hair - I was always cautioned to NEVER wipe the hair, as it would damage the surface of the hair. But - I now use a VERY Clean, Soft cloth and I wipe the hair everyday before applying new rosin (under tension - back and forth on the cloth wrapped around my finger.) This always removes some old rosin, AND seems to "warm up" the remaining rosin, so that it is easier to apply new rosin.
I wonder if you, or others, have ever tried this?
Thank You.

 

[Don Hergert]

Interesting question...

I haven't tried wiping, but I had heard and practiced applying rosin one direction only, from the tip to the frog, with the explanation that applying rosin bidirectionally or from frog to tip breaks down the microscopic nodules mentioned earlier by David.

Is that actually a correct practice, or is it more likely superstition?

 

[Don Kasper]

Interesting question...

I haven't tried wiping, but I had heard and practiced applying rosin one direction only, from the tip to the frog, with the explanation that applying rosin bidirectionally or from frog to tip breaks down the microscopic nodules mentioned earlier by David.

Is that actually a correct practice, or is it more likely superstition?

"Very Superstitious..." (S.Wonder)
I've been applying rosin bidirectionally for the past 15 years or so, with excellent results. I like the feel of a consistent application of rosin from Tip to Frog/Frog to Tip.
Give "wiping" (with a Clean cloth) a try (in both directions) - I was amazed at what a difference it makes.
But that's me...
Thanks.

 

[wathaet]

Here is a paper comparing data on various types of hair. Interesting to note that the only hair that had a measurable difference in volume on up/down was black with a 1db difference.
http://fineviolinbows.com/pdf/Analysis_bowhair.pdf

 

[gypsydjango]

Thanks everybody for your knowledge to my topic--much appreciated.

 

[Michael Eisenman]

Interesting question...

I haven't tried wiping, but I had heard and practiced applying rosin one direction only, from the tip to the frog, with the explanation that applying rosin bidirectionally or from frog to tip breaks down the microscopic nodules mentioned earlier by David.

Is that actually a correct practice, or is it more likely superstition?

We play in both directions, so I don’t see how applying rosin in both directions would hurt anything. I’ve even reversed half of the hairs for a few rehairs, but I don’t know whether it made any difference—not at my level of playing, anyway.

 

[wathaet]

We play in both directions, so I don’t see how applying rosin in both directions would hurt anything. I’ve even reversed half of the hairs for a few rehairs, but I don’t know whether it made any difference—not at my level of playing, anyway.

You can safely apply in both directions...

 

[damonsmith]

You can safely apply in both directions...

I would still recommend lifting off the rosin each direction change. I find black hair to be stronger by far. Maybe I just never got a good hank of white hair, the white hair in my experience looses tension faster and breaks more, especially under the more abusive extended techniques.

 

[Don Hergert]

Here is a paper comparing data on various types of hair. Interesting to note that the only hair that had a measurable difference in volume on up/down was black with a 1db difference.
http://fineviolinbows.com/pdf/Analysis_bowhair.pdf

Thank you @wathaet, that's actually a very interesting study. Images of the "scalation" "plates" on the various types of bow hair were very helpful for me. I'm guessing these "scalation" "plates" are the "microscopic nodules" we've been talking about in this thread.

Interestingly, the study asserts that the rosin is not mechanically held to bow hair by "scalation" "plates", instead it is actually a chemical bond which "depends on the chemical properties of the cuticle and not on the shape of the plates".

 

[CaseyVancouver]

It's just a bow with horse hair.

Not black magic, nor something complicated like string theory or rocket science. Your ability to play is really what makes the difference in your sound.

Yes black hair grabs better for orchestral, and white is smoother for solo.

 

[Oscar Yanez]