Double Bass Bow Weight?

[emilio g]

I play a VERY light Dorfler bow. Not sure of the exact weight, but thats always everyone's first comment about it. Anyway I'm generally really happy with it. Its well balanced and the lightness lets me practice for long periods of time without much fatigue.

However, sometimes I find myself working pretty hard in orchestra to get enough sound. Particularly on passages with lots of low, thumping spiccato. Also, the general vibe at my school tends to be toward heavier bows.

Do orchestral players tend to use heavier bows or is it all about technique and preference?

 

[JoeyNaeger]

I have a 130 gram bow that I find difficult to use in orchestra. A big part of that is that I purposely use a small amount of rosin on it. I have another bow of more average weight which I keep well rosined for orchestral playing.

 

[emilio g]

why do you rosin the light bow less?


and, what kind of rosin? I've tried Kolstein's and Carlson. Carlson is usually a little more reliable for me so I've been sticking to that. Kolstein's sounds and feels great when the weather is good, but if it's a hair too warm or humid its like rosining up with maple syrup.

 

[King Chris]

I find that it has a lot to do with the bow. Usually lighter rosining makes solo playing easier and more rosin gets you into the "Orchestral sound" and volume range. I will say that heavier bows usually have more sound, but a good lighter bow sometmes will pull more sound due to better resonance with a certain bass or just becuase it's a stiffer bow. I used to use carlson but have been usin kolstein of late. I used to always play with little rosin but have been expanding my palet of late. I love the kolstein sound and haven't had too much of a problem with it, but I live in minnesota.

 

[kurt muroki]

i play on a few bows that range from 140 grams down to 118 grams. My favorite is the 118... pulls out more sound and is easier to control. It depends on the quality of the stick and the workmanship of the maker. Sometimes a heavier bow is better, sometimes not.

 

[JoeyNaeger]

118! I tried a 120 gram bow once and found it to be ridiculously light. I wonder who would make such a light bow.

 

[kurt muroki]

yep its light! the previous owner was offered a bass in trade because it plays so well. Anyway it was made by Emile A Ouchard.

 

[Eric Swanson]

i play on a few bows that range from 140 grams down to 118 grams. My favorite is the 118... pulls out more sound and is easier to control. It depends on the quality of the stick and the workmanship of the maker. Sometimes a heavier bow is better, sometimes not.

+1

My Louis Morizot is about 130g including its recently-installed silver wire/leather grip; it was lighter before, maybe 126g, ungripped, as I recall.

I used it that way for years and, actually, preferred it lighter, ungripped, I think. It really does seem to have more to do with the bow, itself.

Some light bows feel ungainly and club-like, some heavier ones feel airy and effortless...

 

[Johnny L]

I like lighter bows. They seem easier to control and make jump when I want, and if I need to dig into the string I've got my arm to help me.

I played a nice heavy snakewood bow once and it felt pretty good, but the tone I drew felt too one-dimensional to me. It was a pretty consistent tone though. Some people like consistency.

 

[King Chris]

My Lepierre is about 135-140 maybe. I love it. good bounce, good stick, pulls plenty of sound and a nice one at that. I will say I played a Deluccia(check spelling) that was a tich heavier but had a glorious sound and was just as playable. I would have bought it but I am on a restricted budget, being a grad student. Definitly has a lot to do with the stick and worksmanship. I am temted to try one of those 200 gram monsters I here those dutch school players like.

 

[JoeyNaeger]

I played a 170ish gram deluccia once and within 5 minutes, I felt fairly fatigued. I bet with practice it wouldn't be a huge issue, but that thing so sluggish.

 

[Uncletoad]

Let me dredge this thread back up again. I use a Prochownik Sartory that is very light, around 127gm. Recently it was suggested that since I play on Spirocore Mittles with a Stark E that I try a heavier bow with black hair. Specifically over 140gms. They thought I was pushing to much to work those high tension crabby strings and that a heavier bow with my Soft Oak Rosin and Black hair would allow me to lighten up more and still draw a decent tone out of my bass.

Sounds interesting to me. I'm not a classical player or section player. Jazz/Rock/Blues/Bluegrass guy with bow work around the edges.

Opinions?

 

[JoeyNaeger]

It's possible it'll help, but honestly, if you're using good technique, you shouldn't need to push too hard even with a lighter bow. Whenever I hear jazz arco, it seems players don't really articulate notes much anyway.

 

[Uncletoad]

It's possible it'll help, but honestly, if you're using good technique, you shouldn't need to push too hard even with a lighter bow. Whenever I hear jazz arco, it seems players don't really articulate notes much anyway.

I buy that. I'm sure I have horrid technique and in fact am attempting to be articulate as well.

So perhaps spending more time with my teacher and the bow is the answer.

Duh.

 

[Nathan Parker]

Never, UncleToad! There has got to be a way to buy a better sound!

 

[emilio g]

I'm finding my light bow works just fine for most playing, even orchestra. What sounds sort of loud under my ear, sounds huge when you step back a few feet.

And Toad, I'm playing on a Stark E, Mittel A and Superflexible D and G.

The bass is generally really loud, bright, and clear, with relatively low action. I'm anxious to see what happens when I get a C extension and lighter endpin put on.

But anyway. I learned my lesson. Just cause a bass sounds one way under my ear doesn't mean it sounds like that to everyone else.

 

[Eric Swanson]

No opinion, but a modest, relatively inexpensive idea, that I have been considering for myself. How about one of those Finale CF bows for $340 to:

- have a stick that you can take out on gigs with your Cleveland and not worry about bringing home kindling at the end of the night

- get a feel for a somewhat heavier bow

http://www.stringemporium.com/carbon-fiber-upright-bass-bows.htm

As I mentioned above, I am using a light bow (just checked the weight; 127g, too, after recently having some work done). For me, my intermittent arco-suckedness has more to do with hand/arm/body tension, "thinking" instead of "playing", etc., more than the bow weight. Then, in my case, there is simply inadequate practice time, these days.

I have been without a teacher for awhile. I notice that my hand position has crept into something not so good. As I practice in front of a mirror and put my hand back in the right shape, suddenly my bow works much better. Hmm.

I can sound like garbage with any weight bow. I am guessing that both of us have right arms that are plenty heavy enough to get the strings going; for me, anyway, its more a function of how I am moving.

The bowmaker I go to told me that the current trend is toward about 140g for orchestral playing. That said, a nice, light stick, like yours or mine, may, perhaps, be less of the problem than arm tension, wrist movement, fear, conceptual failings, grip, etc. At least, that's definitely the case in my own little life.

Another (cheap) thought is to try some Kolstein Soft in conjunction with the Oak Soft.

I am doing this blending thing, currently, 1-2 swipes of Kolstein, followed by 1-2 swipes of Oak. The Kolstein definitely lets me move more air with the bass, with more grab, and the Oak is smoother and sweeter sounding. Helps me relax my arm a bit more. For me currently, its white hair with BelCantos.

Black or S and P hair is an interesting variable. Different things for different setups, basses, and times. One of my fomer teachers used to only use white hair on his Siegfried Finkel bow, now I see him using salt and pepper (with Spiro Weichs and Pops).

Of course, I am now a dabbling amateur, so take all this free information and spate of rambling thoughts, at cost...

 

[Uncletoad]

Thanks for bringing this back up again.

I do have two heavier bows at home already that are more entry level bows. In messing with them I notice initially a bit more grab but overall less control...and they sound like poop compared to the Prochownik.

Having become used to the lighter bow I think practice is the solution. I have not been in regular lessons for awhile either and really want to find the time for that.

I haven't tried blending. I really liked pops but after using the soft oak which grabs almost as well but sounds less obvious I haven't tried other things.

I really think most of this is in my arm.

 

[fergus currie]

I had a bow made for me about 5 years ago by Slava Martin (a Ukranian maker living here in Athens, Greece) and it's 125 grams but it has amazing bite at the tip for that weight. It cost 1400 euros and he came to my house and watched me play for as while then asked me some questions about what i would like the bow to do more (eg. bounce in the middle, strong at the tip, rock in string crossing etc.) and then he went and made something like a copy of my current bow and adjusted a few things (don't ask me what!) and now there it is!
FC

 

[fergus currie]

I have friends who were students of Hans Roulefson in Holland and they play with bows over 200 grams!!!! The play almost lying on their backs (exaggeration) so the weight goes into the string. I don't know who made the bows but I can tell you one of them had lead weights glued on to it! I played for about a minute with one of them and I thought I was going to get tendonitis for the next six months!