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Discussion in 'Orchestral Technique [DB]' started by Andy Mopley, Oct 11, 2016.


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  1. Andy Mopley

    Andy Mopley

    Sep 24, 2011
    Hi all

    tempo is 3/2 - for the legato bars, what is best way to play, as one bow or try down/up, eg. change after first 3 bars??
    Thanks in advance Capture.JPG
     
  2. Jon Stefaniak

    Jon Stefaniak Supporting Member

    Sep 2, 2000
    Tokyo, Japan
    Oscar Zimmerman bowed it this way in the 36 Overtures book.
    IMG_20161011_200544-01.
    Might be excessive. Depends on the tempo and how big the section is playing.
    I would say break the slur only once when it leaps up each time.
     
    csrund likes this.
  3. Andy Mopley

    Andy Mopley

    Sep 24, 2011
    Great, I wasn't sure if at least one break was in order, thanks for replying!
     
  4. bengreen

    bengreen

    Jan 26, 2016
    San Diego
    Always kind of fun to check NY Phil digital archives. Much of their music library is scanned and it goes way back. Wish more orchestras did this.

    There were two scores with parts for Egmont.

    Under Andre Kostelanetz, it was bowed exactly as per Zimmerman.

    New York Philharmonic: Viewer

    Under Leonard Bernstein, each was broken in two, both starting up/ending down.

    New York Philharmonic: Viewer

    Interesting that in both versions, the cellos bow identical to the bass when doubling, but when alone they vary.

    PS Just click the pages to turn.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
    Andy Mopley likes this.
  5. Andy Mopley

    Andy Mopley

    Sep 24, 2011
    Great links, thanks Ben, did not know they existed.
    PS - I find bard 162 and 163 a little tricky if the conductor is waving his/her arms around like crazy - prefer to count it in my own head - you mess up there and you better be listening to the F note coming from the wind section..:)
     
  6. Fast forward to 4:42 to see how Vienna did it under Bernstein:

    And 5:18 under Thielemann:


    Cheers! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
    Jon Stefaniak likes this.
  7. Andy Mopley

    Andy Mopley

    Sep 24, 2011
    Thanks csrund - where would we be without Youtube? :) - perhaps a topic onto itself, in terms of its pedagogic use.
    On another topic, the more of these I watch, the more I question the need to have the bow placed 1/2 way between the end of the fingerboard and the bridge, as suggested by some. In both videos, the bow is certainly closer to the fingerboard, which I find gives a better tone quality, generally. But I do know and appreciate that every piece calls for different bow placement.
     
  8. Jon Stefaniak

    Jon Stefaniak Supporting Member

    Sep 2, 2000
    Tokyo, Japan
    Watching a particular performance of an orchestra play shouldn't lead you to think that they chose the bowing to suit the occasion of this conductor and tempo. They are probably just playing the bowing that was there from long ago. Trying to play the original articulation might work at Thielemann's tempo, but not Bernstein's. So if it isn't causing problems, it is unlikely they will change it.
     
    csrund likes this.
  9. The bow placement you observe in the videos is probably more of a stylistic difference with the European players. My prof at IU, Larry Hurst, demonstrated their style of playing for me in a lesson once. They tend to use a lighter touch and generate volume with longer, faster strokes, rather than pressure into the string. It produces a huge sound, but some people observe that it's less focused. I'm no expert on the subject, but that's what I recall him teaching me about it.

    Cheers!
     
  10. gerry grable

    gerry grable Supporting Member

    Nov 9, 2010
    Am I missing something, again? Why do you say 3/2 when the music is written , clearly, in 3/4?
     
  11. Andy Mopley

    Andy Mopley

    Sep 24, 2011
    Starts in 3/2, but that section is 3/4.
     

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