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Boy, do I suck!!!

#61
Sometimes when I don't practice enough it amazes me how quick you can "lose it". But you can usually get it back with a bit of proper work.

You could try putting in some practice on a "harder bass", if you have one. I have a cheapo with heavyish strings and high action. After a couple of hours on that, my number one bass almost seems to play itself.
 
#64
You'll get it back Jimmy, I have no doubt.

I am surprised at the Motown comment though. Two of my biggest chops builders right now are getting "I Want You Back" by the Jackson 5 (Wilton Felder on bass) and "Heard It Through The Grapevine" by Gladys Knight and the Pips (James Jamerson all over that bass) together note-for-note and at tempo. I am finding it *mighty* chops-building, especially the Jamerson line. He cooks through that stuff, and you have to be sturdy on the open-string bouncing and stuff.
 
#65
Man, I can relate to this. Much harder for me to find - no strike that - MAKE the time to practice at this point in my life. Being as it's what I do for a living, I'm involved in music one way or another every day. But the % of time that I spend practicing on my instrument, working on challenging stuff, has tapered off significantly.

I do think that it gets harder as we age. I'm finding that, for myself, being as efficient as possible in the way I practice is more important now than ever before.

I just can't carve out time to practice 4 and 5 hours a day like when I was young. The key - at least for me I think - is consistency. An hour a day - working at something challenging - over a long period of time is better than going at it several hours a day for a few weeks, then falling off for a few months, then back at it again, and so on...

I appreciate you posting about this, Jimmy. Its good to be reminded that mine isn't the only boat that drifts off course every once in awhile...
 
#66
JimmyM said:
My chops have totally gone to hell. I admit it. I just spent the past 90 minutes or so trying to play some of the songs I grew up playing in bands, and a lot of them were pretty hard...maybe not Jaco/Stanley hard, but they definitely took some chops. Stuff like "La Villa Strangiato" by Rush, "On The Radio" by Joe Jackson, "Strawberry Letter 23" by the Bros Johnson, "The Trooper" by Maiden...I used to be able to pull all that stuff off and then some. But I'd try to pull them off tonight and they all sounded like crap, even after I'd practice them. What broke my heart, though, was not even being able to play the solo in "My Generation" anymore. That solo was ingrained in my DNA, or so I thought.

Man, I used to be good. I was never the kind of bassist who could hang on a Flecktones gig, but I could play. Don't get me wrong, though...I can still play, thank you. But about 15 years ago I started playing almost all oldies from the 50's, 60's and 70's, and very little of the stuff I do is hard to do. It's mostly about being solid rather than being able to dazzle people. The hardest stuff I have to play these days is Motown, which can be hard, but not in a chops wankery kind of way.

But dang it, I miss having the wankery. And it's all because I let this oldies stuff make me lose focus on what's important...chops. I don't care what anyone tells you...yes, you need to be solid. But if you don't have the chops to go along with your solidity, what are you going to play? You won't always need them, but what happens if you do? You suck, that's what you do!!!

It's clear I've let myself go because I could. I knew it all along, to be honest, but tonight really drove it home for me. And I'm not getting any younger, and if I don't do something about it now, I may never get it back.

So it's clear what I have to do. I practice very little because I don't need to. Nothing I'm doing requires it. So I'm going to resolve to practice an hour a day at the very least and way more most days, and I'm going back to the jazz stuff to get myself back up to speed. Might get a couple of those trombone etude books Jeff Berlin likes. Might even start transcribing again, which I hate, but it really does help your playing to do it.

But first I think I'll need to buy a couple new basses and 4 or 5 dirt pedals.

:bassist:
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Yeah, I just watched that movie, "It Might Get Loud" featuring Jimmy Page, Jack White and Edge. In it White was saying how he always like to make things "difficult" for himself. Like playing on cheap, crude or inexpensive equipment, keeping certain instruments far away enough that he would have to race to get to them and so forth. It really struck a chord with me and drove home the point that it's important not to get too comfortable. To stay creative and fresh, it should be kept in the back of one's mind not to rest on one's laurels. I found it to be a relevant lesson. We've gotta keep pushing ourselves in order to keep the juices flowing and vital.
 
#67
HolmeBass said:
You'll get it back Jimmy, I have no doubt.

I am surprised at the Motown comment though. Two of my biggest chops builders right now are getting "I Want You Back" by the Jackson 5 (Wilton Felder on bass) and "Heard It Through The Grapevine" by Gladys Knight and the Pips (James Jamerson all over that bass) together note-for-note and at tempo. I am finding it *mighty* chops-building, especially the Jamerson line. He cooks through that stuff, and you have to be sturdy on the open-string bouncing and stuff.
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We don't do either of those songs ;) The hardest Motown songs we do are "Reach Out" and "What's Goin' On." Not easy, but not the busiest or hardest songs in the Motown catalog.
 
#72
Chops are the meat and veggies of the bass. Then again the great thing about the bass is the variety of how you can achieve certain chops. I noticed you mentioned the trooper (one of the first songs I learned on bass) by good ol steve harris and what I learned from that song many moons ago is that not only is chopping extremely important but each style will make the chop sound different. A) You do what steve does and do two finger triplets, which can be very hard to do in good time expecially without the stamina to be wailing away with only two fingers. B) You do a plectrum (spelling?) which is just using three fingers in a gallop motion, which is less difficult but even still it's easy to go off time. C) You do Down,Up,Down strokes with a pick which personally for me hurts my wrist to do that for extended periods of time. D) You can do all down strokes (I've seen it done) which too me is making something simple way too complicated. Whichever is best for you is what you should practice but I try to practice A and B religiously to a metronome. Metronomes are very unforgiving creatures of mass destruction (Which I'm sure I don't even need to tell you that).

Luckily for me I learned this extremely early in my bass days and really focused my time and effort into mastering chops above all else. The great thing about steve (and why I idolize him so much) is that not only are his chops flawless, regardless of his mistakes that you will notice in any old maiden album from time to time, but he does all of his elaborate scales chopping every note. Which to me personally is beyond rediculous. I can't do it, I know pretty much every maiden song (that I enjoy) made in the 80s and can play then quite successfully but his chopping precision is above reproach.

Geddy Lee is a different animal, I can play a few rush songs but I never really got into them that much. I was always told to learn as many styles as possible and incorporate them into what you do as an original musician. Most of my influence, style, and playing techniques derive from technical more modern metal and even though, to me, I don't like technical death metal but bassists such as Evan Brewer, Stephan Fimmers, and Alex Webster really do make you a better "fancy" musician by learning from their bass lines.

I find that some instruments actually put a limit to what you can or can't do, which most of you might disagree. Scale lengths, dimensions of the neck, action, "dead spots", and even the string gauges can put a damp on a lot of things regarding precision, speed, and technique. I personally prefer smooth, thin necks with .40 - .100 gauge strings on a 34" and have a bad habit of lubing the back of my neck up and putting chalk on my fingers when I play live or record. Then again I do extremely fast, beligerant bass lines incorporating a lot of 16th and 32nd notes.

Anyways, now that I'm done with that useless information rant, If you want to improve your chops like I said man I'd go with a metronome and something articulate. IMO learning the complicated stuff makes the easy stuff effortless.
 
#74
pacojas said:
gee Kris,..

i wish that last statement were true for me. when i focus on complicated, faster stuff,...
it makes the slow, simple stuff hard to do, IME. i always want to over-play the simple parts and the hard part is restraining myself! :help:
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It comes in time IMO, there was a point in time where all I did was complicated stuff. It took my brother to say "woah slow down and play a freakin groove man" for me to realize the genius in simplicity. Going from a 8 measures of sweeps to quarter note thumpin can be hard but just takes practice. The song "Voodoo" by black sabbath is a pretty good startin point for learning speed control.
 
#76
Glad you got something out of it, dude. I certainly am. After just a week and a half of sitting down with the bass for an hour a day (usually a couple hours but at least an hour), it's a whole different ballgame. The fire is back. And then I went and played a doo wop show today with Bowzer and 7 other acts from the 50's and 60's and used none of my revitalized wankery. But I noticed that my solidity is improving, my concentration during the gig is better, and I'm making a lot fewer mistakes. I've always been solid, but the extra confidence just makes it that much more solid. And I'm not just practicing fast stuff. I'm also practicing slow stuff. Can't always assume that you can play the slow stuff if you can play the fast stuff, you know? Slow stuff is important at a doo wop show. Got to hit those whole notes on the one in 12/8 time at just the right moment. Spent a good 10 minutes every session working on that as well.

Probably won't bother updating anymore...you can all assume it's going to keep on going in the up direction. I'll just say that anyone can do it...all you need is to put in the time and learn the right things to practice to get the most improvement. And that's learning the fundamentals of reading and writing music, learning how chords work and how to move in between them, and studying the greats to get ideas for your own playing.
 
#78
JimmyM said:
Glad you got something out of it, dude. I certainly am. After just a week and a half of sitting down with the bass for an hour a day (usually a couple hours but at least an hour), it's a whole different ballgame. The fire is back. And then I went and played a doo wop show today with Bowzer and 7 other acts from the 50's and 60's and used none of my revitalized wankery. But I noticed that my solidity is improving, my concentration during the gig is better, and I'm making a lot fewer mistakes. I've always been solid, but the extra confidence just makes it that much more solid. And I'm not just practicing fast stuff. I'm also practicing slow stuff. Can't always assume that you can play the slow stuff if you can play the fast stuff, you know? Slow stuff is important at a doo wop show. Got to hit those whole notes on the one in 12/8 time at just the right moment. Spent a good 10 minutes every session working on that as well.

Probably won't bother updating anymore...you can all assume it's going to keep on going in the up direction. I'll just say that anyone can do it...all you need is to put in the time and learn the right things to practice to get the most improvement. And that's learning the fundamentals of reading and writing music, learning how chords work and how to move in between them, and studying the greats to get ideas for your own playing.
Click to expand...

Got that studying the greats part down. On the other two, I suck!
 
#80
petesenkowski said:
Not even a little bit of it? :hiding: This may be the most impressive demonstration of your professionalism; I don't know how many of us could display that restraint.
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OK, I admit I did a little flourish at the end of "Shout" ;) But I've heard overplaying bass players do doo wop shows before and they make it suck. That's half the reason we get gigs like that, the other half being we know somebody ;)
 

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