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Brass nut yes or no

#61
sorry, didn't read the whole thread.

just came to mind a sentence pronounced somewhere on TB by a warwick designer and engineer. he was explaining the reasons of the return of warwick to brass nuts not so much time ago. in fact, they used brass on old german instruments but they switched to composite material for almost two decades, and finally, in the last 2,3 years they returned back to machined brass.

the main reasons, admitted by that warwick man, were:
aestethics
tradition
marketing

he stated that warwick luthiers do not believe in any noticeable tonal difference between various high grade and properly made nut materials, even with open strings.

i trust them
 
#63
rafitoprtx said:
In my experience they work. The open string thing is truth. If you have a cheap bass with a plastic nut, brass is the way to go.
Click to expand...

maybe if you have a suoer cheap, not dense or hard plastic nut, the switch to a better material from a sonic point of view could make a noticeable difference on open strings.

myself, I own a thumb bass that was equipped with the just a nut II, platic nut, swapped it for a newer just a nut III, different material and construction, non change in the sound at all, but maybe with brass would have been different, don't know

i have a supercheap p bass, maybe i'll mount a bone nut, brass is not the only upgrade

let's see, i expect differencies in the domain of nuances, anything more will be a surprise
 
#65
I put one on one of my Ricks back in the '80s, when it was all the rage. Can't say I could tell the difference.

The ONLY way to compare is on the same bass, otherwise there are too many other variables affecting things.

And yeah, the whole point of frets is to cause the string to vibrate between the fret and the bridge, totally removing the nut from the equation. So, it'll really only have an effect on open strings.

But, I'm considering putting one on my Rick 4004. All the rest of the hardware is gold plated and I think the nut should match...
 
#67
Take ten random basses and put a brass nuts on three of them. Plug them into the same amp and play. I think anyone on this forum would be hard pressed to identify which ones have brass nuts and which ones do not. Especially if there are any effect pedals being used.

Same goes for rosewood versus maple fingerboards.

Or what wood is used for the body.
 
#69
cjj said:
And yeah, the whole point of frets is to cause the string to vibrate between the fret and the bridge, totally removing the nut from the equation. So, it'll really only have an effect on open strings.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The point is supposed to be to make open strings sound more like fretted notes. Still people claim other differences affecting fretted notes.

This point and the comment above about an UB having a wood nut did make me wonder...do any fretless basses have wood nuts?

It is interesting; the differences that people find (outside of the fret to bridge range) should lead to all kinds of practices and developments. Like where people say they hear and/or feel differences between string through body designs and top-load (string through body being claimed to sound "more full," sound "richer," have "greater harmonic content," have better sustain, and affect string tension.

These same claims should affect headstock designs. Inline tuners should sound different than 2+2, 3+1 and others. Somebody should have certainly come out with a super long headstock, to max out the benefits of string length beyond the nut and bridge. They should make really tall pegs so you can wind the string around a dozen times or so. String guide materials should matter. Silks should have a huge impact on tone.
 
#70
"These same claims should affect headstock designs. Inline tuners should sound different than 2+2, 3+1 and others. Somebody should have certainly come out with a super long headstock, to max out the benefits of string length beyond the nut and bridge. They should make really tall pegs so you can wind the string around a dozen times or so. String guide materials should matter. Silks should have a huge impact on tone."

Which takes us back to the $200 amp power cord...
 
#72
I think any hard, high-density properly installed material will do. Brass qualifies. Although I accept the argument that the main difference would be on open strings, unless you exert cramp-inducing downforce, the string between the nut and your hand will vibrate. This could cancel some of the energy of the note you're trying to capture. Theoretically, a harder, better anchored nut will allow some of the unwanted vibrations to dissipate into the less dense neck material.

Note that I said theoretically.

I used to work in high-end audio, and the materials in some turntables and tonearms were chosen in order to create a mechanical diode effect that helped disperse extraneous vibration away from the record/cartridge.

Obviously, the wavelengths and amplitudes are much different for bass strings and phono cartridges, just thought I'd put it out there.
 
#73
bass_case said:
I think any hard, high-density properly installed material will do. Brass qualifies. Although I accept the argument that the main difference would be on open strings, unless you exert cramp-inducing downforce, the string between the nut and your hand will vibrate. This could cancel some of the energy of the note you're trying to capture. Theoretically, a harder, better anchored nut will allow some of the unwanted vibrations to dissipate into the less dense neck material.

Note that I said theoretically.

I used to work in high-end audio, and the materials in some turntables and tonearms were chosen in order to create a mechanical diode effect that helped disperse extraneous vibration away from the record/cartridge.

Obviously, the wavelengths and amplitudes are much different for bass strings and phono cartridges, just thought I'd put it out there.
Click to expand...

Playing with a damping device on the open strings (like a hairband) doesn't produce any discernible difference in fretted notes, in my experience. I don't suspect that the conductivity of a brass nut would really make much of a difference, either. Actually, it would seem that conducting more vibration into the neck would be just as likely to create resonance issues, and dead spots, as to limit them (if it actually does anything). Added mass, however, may help a bit under very specific circumstances.
 
#74
To really test this, using identical basses each with a different nut material would probably yield tonal differences on open notes, but it would be really hard to find identical basses given the variations in wood density, metal density in frets and bridges, etc. I have basses from different manufacturers using brass, bone, and plastic. Since they are all different construction wise, it would be very hard to pinpoint the tonal effect of the nut material just by itself. If I had to lean one way, it would be a very negligible effect, if any at all.
 
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#76
SRFSterling5 said:
To really test this, using identical basses each with a different nut material would probably yield tonal differences on open notes, but it would be really hard to find identical basses given the variations in wood density, metal density in frets and bridges, etc. I have basses from different manufacturers using brass, bone, and plastic. Since they are all different construction wise, it would be very hard to pinpoint the tonal effect of the nut material just by itself. If I had to lean one way, it would be a very negligible effect, if any at all.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I mention my Sabres. As close to an A/B as I can imagine. I was not LOOKING for a tonal difference, but one is clearly evident between these two VERY similar basses. The only differences, other than finish, are the nut and neck width at the nut. Yet tone is noticeably, but not significantly different, especially with open strings.
 
#77
malthumb said:
This is exactly why I mention my Sabres. As close to an A/B as I can imagine. I was not LOOKING for a tonal difference, but one is clearly evident between these two VERY similar basses. The only differences, other than finish, are the nut and neck width at the nut. Yet tone is noticeably, but not significantly different, especially with open strings.
Click to expand...
That doesn't sound like a good thing at all. On a Sabre..it's quite brassy with the open strings but suddenly flips tones when fretted? Maybe a brass bridge on the Sabre would even all that out..
 
#78
malthumb said:
This is exactly why I mention my Sabres. As close to an A/B as I can imagine. I was not LOOKING for a tonal difference, but one is clearly evident between these two VERY similar basses. The only differences, other than finish, are the nut and neck width at the nut. Yet tone is noticeably, but not significantly different, especially with open strings.
Click to expand...

Maybe I stood too close to china cymbals when I was younger. Either that or I don't pay too much attention to it to notice. I do like the concept of the zero nut, kind of makes sense and makes the nut less of an issue, and makes it serve more of a string alignment function.
 
#79
OldDirtyBassist said:
That doesn't sound like a good thing at all. On a Sabre..it's quite brassy with the open strings but suddenly flips tones when fretted? Maybe a brass bridge on the Sabre would even all that out..
Click to expand...

I didn't say it sounded brassy. I said it sounded different. Cleaner and clearer. But then, maybe I don't know what brassy sounds like. I think "horn" when you say brassy. Nope. Not what I'm hearing. Just cleaner and clearer. Of the two Sabres, I like the feel (slimmer neck) and tone of the one with the brass nut best. Then again, I am probably pre-disposed to brass nuts, since every Alembic I have ever owned (or played) has one.
 
#80
If a brass nut makes you happy, then by all means... I have 2 basses with them; an Alembic, and a 4001 Ric. But, I also have basses with nuts made out of aluminum, bone, ivory, Tusq, and various kinds of plastic; and a couple with no nut at all. They are what they are, and, frankly, what the nut is made of is not a big deal for me. If it does what it's supposed to, I'm happy. :)
 

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