Bridges

[Khronic]

EVERY guitar is an elastic entitity, the strings exert significant pull on both neck and body (via the bridge). When played, the strings cause the body and neck to vibrate (every action causes an opposite and equal reaction). The neck/body's reaction also feeds back into the string, affecting the tone.

dabbler makes a valid, and often overlooked, point. In 38 years of playing, all of the best sounding and feeling Basses I've tried had one thing in common. They all were live instruments. You could feel the notes as well as hear them. Through aural and tactile observation it became apparent that this interaction between string and body was a key to superior tone in any given instrument.

To increase this interaction? Simple. Increase the surface contact area between the actual string saddle and the body of the instrument. "Well how would you do that?" you might ask. Again, simple. Eliminate the set screws as string height adjusters. That will yield the biggest advantage.

Simple, right?

 

[Rumblin' Man]

i don't know ANY of the history behind it, I'm afraid, but the bent-plate Fender bridge pales in comparison to some of the engineering marvels Leo & Co. pulled off. it almost seems like an afterthought.

Try designing a better bridge having the same (or better) functionality using the same amount of material and for the same cost.

 

[EpicSoundtracks]

Try designing a better bridge having the same (or better) functionality using the same amount of material and for the same cost.

wahh? i'm not an engineer or an industrial designer. i never claimed i could do better. what i SAID was that IMO, the bridge is the weak link in the "design chain," if you will.

Fact is, others HAVE done better (Leo Quan, Schaller), and I take advantage of these advancements whenever I can.

 

[ehque]

Try designing a better bridge having the same (or better) functionality using the same amount of material and for the same cost.

I agree with you that the bent-plate bridge is probably the cheapest way a working bridge could be designed. In fact, the genius of it is quite apparent, its simple, it works ok and it's easy to machine.

However i always found it weird that he used springs to hold the saddles in place. The string tension forcing the saddles down into the base plate usually ensured that wherever i pushed the saddles to, the springs would not be able to move them. To answer your question, I would have locked the heads of the intonation adjustment screws into place at the bent end, and done away with the springs.

 

[lowendgenerator]

The common problem I've had with bent tin Fender bridges is the intonation spring/screw assembly backing out and falling out of the bridge. I've seen it on new Fenders sitting on the rack at the store, the G screw backs itself out and scurries for the nearest dark corner, never to be seen again.

I have BAII's on all my Fenders, and I'm happy. I think it's just a better bridge. It's an upgradeable part just like everything else.

 

[Rumblin' Man]

To answer your question, I would have locked the into place at the bent end, and done away with the springs.

I assume you don't really mean "locked" since intonation would not be possible if the heads were locked. Do you mean they would be captive? How would you implement the captive intonation screwhead feature? I see increased complexity of production and therefore cost being an issue.

I can see your point but I also find it interesting that quite a few bridge companies have copied that same spring loaded intonation screw feature, even on otherwise more elaborate designs.

 

[ehque]

I assume you don't really mean "locked" since intonation would not be possible if the heads were locked. Do you mean they would be captive? How would you implement the captive intonation screwhead feature? I see increased complexity of production and therefore cost being an issue.

I can see your point but I also find it interesting that quite a few bridge companies have copied that same spring loaded intonation screw feature, even on otherwise more elaborate designs.

Yes, probably, about the captive thing. I don't have machinist lingo. A double foldback of the metal would provide a backing to hold the heads from falling out. Just a little bit of fold would do. With a hole for a screwdriver, but not big enough for the screw to fall out.

I guess the cost increase should be offset by the cost of the springs. I can't quantify either amount.

I agree with you that those springs exist on other bridge designs. My Zon, in fact, has a wilkinson bridge that uses said springs. However, my bridge doesn't move, and the saddles dont move when i push on them either. Something must be done differently.

 

[Rumblin' Man]

A double foldback of the metal would provide a backing to hold the heads from falling out. Just a little bit of fold would do. With a hole for a screwdriver, but not big enough for the screw to fall out.

I like that but how would the screws be installed?

And how about replacing rusted or stripped screws?


I once read a quote about Leo Fender, "Nobody gets more guitar neck out of less wood than Leo Fender."

 

[Infernal Affair]

wahh? i'm not an engineer or an industrial designer. i never claimed i could do better. what i SAID was that IMO, the bridge is the weak link in the "design chain," if you will.

Fact is, others HAVE done better (Leo Quan, Schaller), and I take advantage of these advancements whenever I can.

Leo's done better, too. This is also the same man who came up with the Stingray bridge and the G&L bridges. I bet Leo Fender would have loved to change the bridge on his early designs. Too bad he couldn't after the CBS acquisition.

Try designing a better bridge having the same (or better) functionality using the same amount of material and for the same cost.

You could probably make the traditional Fender bridge using even less material by shaving a few ends here and there. The cost issue was relevant in the early days of the Fender bass' existence, but now it is a moot point. Better bridges have been made and the cost to make them is not a huge margin. (SRP is a totally different matter.) Fender (the company) most likely keeps their bridges the same as a part of tradition and the fact that it's easy and cheap to manufacture. As a company, if your stuff is making money, there's no need spend the money to improve on a piece if it's not faulty.

They've started putting BADASS bridges on some of their models, which I think is a good decision. A lot of people do it anyway, so why not strike up a deal with Leo Quan?

 

[Human Bass]

If you put grooves bellow the saddles, it is hard to beat the Fender design. The MIA Fenders have a great bridge.

 

[EpicSoundtracks]

If you put grooves bellow the saddles, it is hard to beat the Fender design. The MIA Fenders have a great bridge.

i firmly, but respectfully, disagree.

 

[Khronic]

Fender (the company) most likely keeps their bridges the same as a part of tradition and the fact that it's easy and cheap to manufacture. ?

That bridge is part of the equation that makes a Fender "Sound like a Fender" according to Dan Smith, V.P. of research and development at Fender.

Wonder how many times I can type Fender in a single post?

 

[Khronic]

i firmly, but respectfully, disagree.

+1

 

[Human Bass]

i firmly, but respectfully, disagree.

Ah, you could say that the hipshot A is easier to adjust, since the saddles are isolated and such. But the Fender still is quite adjustable, and as long as it is stable and reliable, its hard to consider one bridge better than other.

I had a BadAss 3 on my Fender, and it was a waste of money. It was bulky and the very thick plate didnt allow a really low action.

 

[EpicSoundtracks]

Ah, you could say that the hipshot A is easier to adjust, since the saddles are isolated and such. But the Fender still is quite adjustable, and as long as it is stable and reliable, its hard to consider one bridge better than other.

I had a BadAss 3 on my Fender, and it was a waste of money. It was bulky and the very thick plate didnt allow a really low action.

there are lots of other alternatives -- ABM, Schaller, Naimish -- all of which are marked improvements over the bent-plate in various ways.

 

[jgsbass]

It seems to me that a bridge is a bridge is a bridge.

and if you look at the horizon, it seems as if the earth is flat.
There is an interaction between the string and body and this interaction takes place at the bridge. I theorize ( after 40+ years of playing) that the size and shape of the saddle piece have more to do with it than the plate that they sit on.
The Fender bridge was a comprimise (at best) to have a functioning bridge at a decent price point that could be manufactured in house. It was also the beginning of solid body electric string technology and I'm sure a lot of it was not carried out with a lot of R+D. Back then, since the idea of Leo's electric bass was to emulate a string doublebass, sustain wasn't a big deal and for the first 10 years of electric bassdom, I bet no one complained.

 

[ebasss]

I just droped a Badass II in my Jazz Bass as well, it does sound like a new insturment the more advanced your bridge the better the bass.

 

[ExaltBass]

I installed a Badass bridge on my '69 P-Bass in the mid 70's and liked the result. I have been adding higher mass bridges to all my Fender Basses since then (kinda partial to the Gold P-Bass Deluxe bridges of the early 80's). Seems more 'solid' sounding to me - more punch and sustain. No more "bent metal' bridges in my future.

 

[Human Bass]

there are lots of other alternatives -- ABM, Schaller, Naimish -- all of which are marked improvements over the bent-plate in various ways.

Dude, Im not a fan of the standard Fender bridge either. I consider them unstable and such, but take a look on the MIA bridges, they are very,very solid, made of steel and very reliable.

 

[hoosierdad]

I prefer the Fender 'bent' bridge. It's easy to adjust - easy to intonate - and it's easy to change strings on them. I use flatwound strings - so sustain is not an issue for me. The simplcity of design vs how much it does - is the deal.
The Strat and Tele also use 'bent' bridges - It's a family tradition.