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Budget vs Expensive

O

oldprussians

Jan 7, 2008
475
6
United Republic of Europe
Disclosures
IT Professional!
#1
Ok so in another thread I said I wouldn't have this row... but now I'm bored.....

I have Behringer ULTRABASS BXL1800A.

And people in this forum like to take big pot shots at Behringer and some of them are quite fair comments.

Now I would like to have a MarkBass, or EBS or GlockenKlang Combo like for example a Mini CMD 121P.

But what I discovered after trying them is, yes they are nicer in many ways for construction ect through to sound, but.....

Not that much better if you compare them to HI-FI equipment.

If I go into a HI-Fi shop and try a Cambridge Audio amp and budget speakers in a sound room, then using the same price difference ratio, listen to the better amp and speakers, the difference really is Night and Day..... I really do notice the construction and sound....

I just don't get that difference in bass amps.

As Mrs Merton used to say... "Lets have a heated debate"!
 
#2
one of the factors you have to consider with the better quality amps is that they'll have greater longevity under the rigors of gigging than the cheaply made ones.

Also, the difference in tone will be more or less noticeable depending on a number of factors, specifically your playing style, the instrument, and of course where it matters most: the mix with the rest of the band, not solo in a music store.
 
#3
dhsierra1 said:
one of the factors you have to consider with the better quality amps is that they'll have greater longevity under the rigors of gigging than the cheaply made ones.

Also, the difference in tone will be more or less noticeable depending on a number of factors, specifically your playing style, the instrument, and of course where it matters most: the mix with the rest of the band, not solo in a music store.
Click to expand...

Fair point! You can mimic a sitting room in shop, which they do, but not a rehearsal room with a band...

As to the sound I one heard Dominic Miller make a 100 pound acoustic steel string guitar, sound as good a and 800 pound one. It was all in his fingers!
 
#4
I have a couple of heads / cabs & notice quite a difference between them (and were not really talking budget vs expensive - its all decent stuff)...

Markbass & TC heads / Markbass, Bergantino & EA cabs - my fav is the Markbass running through the Bergie...

I imagine there would be a big difference between the MB, EBS & Glock Combos. - not really better/worse, just different flavours...
 
#5
oldprussians said:
Fair point! You can mimic a sitting room in shop, which they do, but not a rehearsal room with a band...

As to the sound I one heard Dominic Miller make a 100 pound acoustic steel string guitar, sound as good a and 800 pound one. It was all in his fingers!
Click to expand...

a good musician can and should be able to overcome any shortcomings in their gear and sound very much like themselves.

That said, there's a reason why the serious pros will more than likely not go with the more expensive instruments. They can and do need that final few percent, it matters to them and their performance and they can tell.
 
#6
dhsierra1 said:
one of the factors you have to consider with the better quality amps is that they'll have greater longevity under the rigors of gigging than the cheaply made ones.
Click to expand...

Exactly. From all of the gear I have owned, I have realized one thing - if it works for you, use it.

HOWEVER, I find Behringer equipment to be terrible in reliability and have had it fail on me at gigs (Behringer mixer board to be exact). Do not rule out buying used gear from other bass players. That is the easiest way to get good gear at a good price - besides stealing it :ninja:
 
#7
PazzoBasso said:
I have a couple of heads / cabs & notice quite a difference between them (and were not really talking budget vs expensive - its all decent stuff)...

Markbass & TC heads / Markbass, Bergantino & EA cabs - my fav is the Markbass running through the Bergie...

I imagine there would be a big difference between the MB, EBS & Glock Combos. - not really better/worse, just different flavours...
Click to expand...

We're not talking flavours, we're talking quality difference.

Do I go playing a Behringer then play a Mark Bass and go "By all that is good I must have that Mark bass and throw the Behringer to sharks", given the price difference.

With Hi-Fi equipment I would and have done so.... well sort of a friend took pity on me and gave me a better Hi-Fi amp!
 
#8
vis a vis hi fi gear (disclosure: I'm a recovering audiophila nervosa patient :D) vs bass gear, the former is to reproduce a musical performance with as little coloration as possible to the recorded music. Generally you need some decent and unfortunately pretty pricey gear to get there. And as we all know, you never really ever get "there" :atoz:

The latter is indeed meant to be part of a chain to create your tone. An exception to the rule is amplification of acoustic instruments (generally).

Another thing to keep in mind is that price isn't everything, build quality (and features) matter greatly. Peavey, Hartke (and a few others) make very good quality gear at a relatively low price compared to say Genz Benz. And that gear will last a long time under adverse conditions.
 
#10
Far be it from anyone to actually conduct a double blind test, or even a fair listening test. There just isn't much of a difference in a lot of gear. But the more someone pays, or the better the deal they think you got, the more you'll try to promote it by debating how good it is in subjective ways.

If things were so different, it would be childs play to tell the difference.
http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm
"Shouldn't the differences be so evident that it'd be a child's game to pick the best?"
 
#11
To me, chinese made but good and well priced stuff like the Hartke LH amps, GK MB-II cabs, Ashdown stuff etc. are 'budget' - Behringer stuff is 'cheap' and priced too low for decent quality and quality control.
 
#12
seamonkey said:
If things were so different, it would be childs play to tell the difference.
http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm
"Shouldn't the differences be so evident that it'd be a child's game to pick the best?"
Click to expand...

not everyone hears the same, some people really do have more acute hearing than others, fact of life and well researched in the medical research lit. And yes, some (a lot) of the audiophilia nervosa gear is hogwash. Some, however, is not.

As far as bass amps, again, that's a matter of the individual's hearing ability and to be perfectly blunt based on a number of bassists I've heard over the years I'd say they need their hearing checked.
 
#13
mokkat said:
...Behringer stuff is 'cheap' and priced too low for decent quality and quality control.
Click to expand...

So why is Behringer cheaper? They control costs though quality. Behringer has been around 25 years.

You get 3-year warranty out of the box on all the gear.

They build in their own factory. They have a huge one, and they are a major consumer of electronic components and thus get first pick

They test everything, QA and Testing is cheaper than repair, they even have X-ray equipment to scan multilayer boards. Also, they know quality components require less repair.

If someone has any problems they have invested heavily in service centers in their markets.

FWIW - blind tests as above - nobody hears a difference that should be childs play by all those doubting the quality.
 
#14
I A/Bed a $5000 MacIntosh poweramp and a $350 Crest recently. Guess what, not much of a difference with my Monique poweramp.

In a full mix, an amp isn't even needed I guess. A DI works great.

Lastly, not to knock Behringer as they sound pretty good.... But they are not giggable long term IMO. The QC is terrible and most of the amps I have seen have been poorly constructed. But hey, if it works for you, knock yourself out.
 
#18
Well I don't much care for Markbass, but I can tell you that my fairly expensive ex-rig ( Carvin power amp, SansAmp RBI sounded good to me, but since I got the SVT, it is evident that there really is no comparison. Of course that may be due to the SVT being all tube and the other stuff being no tube, but...
 
#19
Used a Behringer Ultrabass BX3000T for five or six of years, and while I never had reliability problems (aside from one pot knob falling off), when I switched to Little Mark 3, difference was huge. Not only my sound trough the same cab, but also DI-to-mixer sound. I believe quality difference was as big as the price diff (160 euro- 500 euro).
P.S. I have nothing against Beh. or any other low cost brand, and would use any equipment or instrument that sound good to me.
 
#20
mokkat said:
To me, chinese made but good and well priced stuff like the Hartke LH amps, GK MB-II cabs, Ashdown stuff etc. are 'budget' - Behringer stuff is 'cheap' and priced too low for decent quality and quality control.
Click to expand...

Just for info: G-K no longer has any finished product coming from the G-K China plant as of 12/31/2011. G-K also moved raw speaker production back to California last year, I'm not sure if the plant even operates anymore. Couple reasons RAG made known were transportation costs and labor costs (they were/are G-K employees not a third party sweat house).
 

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