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Build II - Paradox MJ5 - New design!
- Thread starter roberthabraken
- Start date
That red is incredible, I can't imagine you not doing that.
Definitely should do the headstock red too.
Definitely should do the headstock red too.
Just puttin' my 2 cents in here, but I definitely prefer the plain maple on that bass.
The maple has, imo, a certain understated "right-ness", it just looks great.
The red, again imo, just plain un-does the "right-ness".
Maybe a darker red would better suit the bass, which is just beautiful, but I think the overall appearance of the bass as it sits now is diminished somewhat with that particular red, for sure.
Again, imo. Regardless, I really like it, even the pickguard.
wraub
The maple has, imo, a certain understated "right-ness", it just looks great.
The red, again imo, just plain un-does the "right-ness".
Maybe a darker red would better suit the bass, which is just beautiful, but I think the overall appearance of the bass as it sits now is diminished somewhat with that particular red, for sure.
Again, imo. Regardless, I really like it, even the pickguard.
wraub
In my head, when I saw your original renditions (when you first started the thread) I remembered it being a very deep orange center fading into a deep redburst. I always pictured that.....
I think as original as the design is, you would almost be doing it an injustice by not doing something equally as original with the finish. I always love it when I look at a bass and am blown away by how un cookie-cuttered the finish is. If I saw it out in the world and it had a natural finish on it I would think "Very cool design but he kind of copped out on the finish"
Not meaning to be harsh so please don't take it as a criticism...
I think as original as the design is, you would almost be doing it an injustice by not doing something equally as original with the finish. I always love it when I look at a bass and am blown away by how un cookie-cuttered the finish is. If I saw it out in the world and it had a natural finish on it I would think "Very cool design but he kind of copped out on the finish"
Not meaning to be harsh so please don't take it as a criticism...
I couldn't agree with you more. The bass certainly deserves it and Rob has the tenacity to get the job done, however I think time and the availability of resources might be the crucial decider here.
Thankfully there is a pinstripe between the Maple and the Ash. That gives an important amount of breathing room when it comes to masking. You might well be best masking off the Maple with tape, hand-rubbing finish into the back and then staining the Maple afterwards. I have been using a fantastic "universal lacquer" over the last few weeks:
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....on a number of small items from turned pens, to a flamed Birch flower planter stand, small jointed boxes for spindle moulder cutters, etc. It's an extremely quick drying hand rubbed lacquer which sounds like it might be a similar idea to the stuff the luthier gave you Rob. I think that as long as it masks the Ash enough to prevent stain ingress (I am concerned that stain might creep underneath a surface finish) it would suit both your immediacy and proposed method.
The stuff rubs in and is dry within a few minutes. Subsequent applications can be done at the rate of one every time you finish the last one given the size of an instrument. It will more than likely be a good finish to go over the red also. I'd like to see what other (experienced) people think about this compromise.
Thankfully there is a pinstripe between the Maple and the Ash. That gives an important amount of breathing room when it comes to masking. You might well be best masking off the Maple with tape, hand-rubbing finish into the back and then staining the Maple afterwards. I have been using a fantastic "universal lacquer" over the last few weeks:
Invalid Link Removed
....on a number of small items from turned pens, to a flamed Birch flower planter stand, small jointed boxes for spindle moulder cutters, etc. It's an extremely quick drying hand rubbed lacquer which sounds like it might be a similar idea to the stuff the luthier gave you Rob. I think that as long as it masks the Ash enough to prevent stain ingress (I am concerned that stain might creep underneath a surface finish) it would suit both your immediacy and proposed method.
The stuff rubs in and is dry within a few minutes. Subsequent applications can be done at the rate of one every time you finish the last one given the size of an instrument. It will more than likely be a good finish to go over the red also. I'd like to see what other (experienced) people think about this compromise.
Thanks guys. You haven't made this easier for me (I know it wouldn't anyway, because I have to decide for myself), but it's cool to know the general opinion. So far I have 4 or 5 (on- and offline) strong votes for the clear oil finish and lots of votes for the red. Still no strong preference for one of the options myself.. so I will make another test piece soon and see if I can improve some things. As I look at my test pieces now, I notice a few problems:
Also, I'm a little stuck with the logo. If I am going for the red, I need a decal with white letters, otherwise it needs to be black. Inlaying a symbol is still possible, and the preferred technique, but I'd rather have my full name on it...
Just sharing my thoughts with you, so no progress furthermore. I really want to finish it up, so it kinda bugs me I cannot make up my mind. I hope another test piece will make the decision easier, putting aside the logo quest.
- The black stain didn't dry well enough and mixed with the red too much, creating a purple tint in some places. I need to wait longer between the multiple layers and put a lot of effort into sanding back evenly to get an even red tint.
- Due to being a test piece, I dind't clean the bench well enough after sanding, so when applying the red stain, little dots of black stained dust hit my workpiece again.. but this is an easy one to improve.
- The stain is sucked up by the end grain much more (logically, because this is what creates the enhanced figure in the wood), so I either need to sand back better (more) on the sides, or I will have to seal the sides first with sanding sealer and then sand back a little before I apply the stain. This seems hard to me.
- I did not put enough effort into applying the stain (multiple passes, rotating the cloth, really getting it in there), so in some spots you can clearly see some natural wood through the stain (deep into the Swamp Ash grain). Also not hard to improve.
- I need to seal the headstock sides with sanding sealer first, to get a perfect line between the headstock top (stained) and sides (natural). This is the step that intimidates me the most of the whole process and to me seems the highest risk to ruin the build.
- I am not sure yet how my oil will react on the stain, so I will have to test that too once my staining technique is under control.
Also, I'm a little stuck with the logo. If I am going for the red, I need a decal with white letters, otherwise it needs to be black. Inlaying a symbol is still possible, and the preferred technique, but I'd rather have my full name on it...
Just sharing my thoughts with you, so no progress furthermore. I really want to finish it up, so it kinda bugs me I cannot make up my mind. I hope another test piece will make the decision easier, putting aside the logo quest.
For the decal you can try printing your name in reverse on the paper and then using a silver acrylic marker to fill in the clear decal paper inbetween a black outline around the letters. if you make the outline thick enough you can kind of just scribble the color on and not have to be so careful. then after you color it in you seal the decal and let it dry before you put it on the bass.
Wow! The red photoshopped bass is AWESOME! I can't imagine the bass in another color except hot rod red! RED RED RED! 
Can't wait to see it finished!
Can't wait to see it finished!
kvnjcbsn93 said:
Thanks, I know. But the problem isn't that I don't know how a decal or this technique works, but the fact that I want to oil the bass. Is a water slide decal still possible then?
bassingeorge said:Wow! The red photoshopped bass is AWESOME! I can't imagine the bass in another color except hot rod red! RED RED RED!
Your original intention was to do a red finish on the top so you should stick to your guns rather than letting the Internets sway you.
Worst comes to the worst (all scrap tests fail) an oil finish requires no special facilities or materials to achieve. Exhaust yourself with scrap tests and once you find a technique that you are comfortable with - and work - repeat it a couple of times before committing. If you don't find a satisfactory combination, go and oil it instead.
I am still in the process of learning paint myself in the practical sense. Like yourself I have a massive resource of research and knowledge however applying it is a totally different game. I'd give yourself a cutoff date and use that to cut short your internal debate as you obviously have a timetable for completion. If you can't resolve it, go for oil. No point in taking any chances as you have not done so thus far, and I take it you are the kind of person that will kick themselves forever for the slightest risk taken that went wrong. Don't do them then.
Apologies if I am further muddying the waters with ideas. I know what it's like to have a million ideas a second that I can't pursue. Thanks, Aspergers.
Worst comes to the worst (all scrap tests fail) an oil finish requires no special facilities or materials to achieve. Exhaust yourself with scrap tests and once you find a technique that you are comfortable with - and work - repeat it a couple of times before committing. If you don't find a satisfactory combination, go and oil it instead.
I am still in the process of learning paint myself in the practical sense. Like yourself I have a massive resource of research and knowledge however applying it is a totally different game. I'd give yourself a cutoff date and use that to cut short your internal debate as you obviously have a timetable for completion. If you can't resolve it, go for oil. No point in taking any chances as you have not done so thus far, and I take it you are the kind of person that will kick themselves forever for the slightest risk taken that went wrong. Don't do them then.
Apologies if I am further muddying the waters with ideas. I know what it's like to have a million ideas a second that I can't pursue. Thanks, Aspergers.
You are right Prostheta, 100% right on that. I won't let me sway due to the opinion of others, but my own mind hasn't a clear preference either, despite my initial intention. I will however do some more practical research.
Disassociate yourself from the decision in that case. A cutoff date is a good way to do this. Make the most of your scrap and before you know it, you'll have two builds under your belt and a sixth on the way next year.
The invoice for the therapy sessions is in the post.
The invoice for the therapy sessions is in the post.
I think it looks really good natural or maybe a little darker natural color even. Just my thoughts.
ive been following your thread for a long time now, great looking bass and your work is immaculate.
while following, whenever the topic of the finish came up, i always thought this would look better without the red, or any color for that matter. the wood has such a beautiful grain and it would be a shame to cover it up...BUT when i saw this picture you changed my mind. if you can get the red translucent like that, where it still heavily shows the grain that would be the best looking bass ever.
also, about the headstock. i say finish it the same as the body. maybe just do the front, so you can see the sides are natural. that might look good.
i have loved reading your thread so far, it has really motivated me to start working on my guitars and has given me a goal of one day building my own. this thread has been a great and educational read so far. KEEP IT UP!
(your into model planes too?! man...
)
With gloss lacquer I'd go red but with oil definately natural. Oil makes the colour a bit warmer and that figure would look great.
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I was a big fan for the Red, but side to side, now I'm wobbling a little. That natural with oil will look superb, and I also think that the red would look best with a high gloss finish...
Essentially you can't lose both look stunning.
I just got a mental picture of this bass in translucent black and got chills.
I was a big fan for the Red, but side to side, now I'm wobbling a little. That natural with oil will look superb, and I also think that the red would look best with a high gloss finish...
Essentially you can't lose both look stunning.
I just got a mental picture of this bass in translucent black and got chills.
