Building a PA, a journey.

[modulusman]

I'm definately on board with powered speakers. The Preamps in the VlZ Pro series Mackies are actually pretty good. Audio quality wise, the vlz will smoke that Peavey, hands down. Not a fan of the Peavey FX boards...

Then again, I would go digitial and be done with it. A used 16.4.2 guves you everything you will likely everned in a board and all the outboard gear you could want.

In my case size matters. I have to pack PA, lights, rig, basses, wife... In. Subaru Outback... kSub, K10's plus, JBL PRX612m's as monitors. 16.4.2 in a flight case, cable bag and stands. Is about as small as a really good sounding system can get. It is also super easy to setup. I have EQ curves setup for most of the venues I play and scenes setup for the different groups I play with or do sound for.

Small places where I don't meed the sub, I put the 612's up as mains and run the 10's as monitors. The 612's are warm but clear and the bigger box has a more natural low end. The K10's on Ksub setup rocks though. It's good to have options...

Well not my experience and I have owned 5 Mackie mixers. The feature set on the fx is way better than the mixer the OP is looking at. more channels, stereo 28 band EQ, A feedback ferret, crossover,delay, parametric EQ, more auxes available for more monitor mixes. Built in effects also.

 

[modulusman]

Decided to go old school. Picked up the Mackie for $120

Update:

Currently I have:

(2x) Yorkville E12 (copy) monitors (passive) 250 watts at 8 ohms
Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer
Crown XLS1000 350watts at 4ohms per side [for monitors]

total spent so far = $550.00

What is in the pipeline:


Looking at:
Crown XLS1000 525 watts at 4ohms per side [for mains]
Another set of Monitors?
Set of Mains?

Well with the mixer you bought you will probably need to buy some graphic EQs unless you want to listen to feedback all night. It will also be needed to make your passive speakers sound half decent. That is one of the nice things about powered speakers, the engineers who design them take care of the processing so you don't have to. I would try and find something powered for main speakerts if I was you.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Well with the mixer you bought you will probably need to buy some graphic EQs unless you want to listen to feedback all night. It will also be needed to make your passive speakers sound half decent.

In addition to the EQ's, you'll also need an FX engine of some type (MidiVerb, etc). You can pick up both for less than $50 each...here, anyway. I see no "mains" inserts so I'd recommend you run your two-channel EQ between the mixer and corresponding main and monitor power amps...one EQ channel for each. Use Aux 1 output to feed the monitors and Aux 2 send & return to run a parallel configuration through the FX engine. The mixer itself has only so many options so you'd be better off running everything in mono which will, in turn, allow you to use the peripheral and slave components more efficiently. If using 8 ohm main & monitor enclosures, you may want to consider running the power amps in bridged mono and daisy-chaining.

http://www.mackie.com/pdf/archive/ms1202vlz_om.pdf

Riis

 

[Snakeman1066]

I found myself in the same boat last year

Everyething was sourced off of craigslist....over a 6 month period

Picked up a Soundcraft Spirit 16 for $250.00 Came with Rack ears and was mounted in an SKB flip top 8 space rack

then I snagged a pair of Peavey PV115 2 ways for $300.00 complete with stands

later i snagged a pair of PV118 subs for $330.00

then later i traded two old bass cabs for two Behringer INuke amps

then two Peavey PV15 M's for $250.00

and lastly...

two Peavey PV12 M's for $200.00

Then i traded an old Ibanez 6 string electric for a Behringer ultra drive pro

it's not gorgeous or beautiful or new, but it gets the Job done...lol

 

[Zooberwerx]

I found myself in the same boat last year

Everyething was sourced off of craigslist....over a 6 month period

Picked up a Soundcraft Spirit 16 for $250.00 Came with Rack ears and was mounted in an SKB flip top 8 space rack

then I snagged a pair of Peavey PV115 2 ways for $300.00 complete with stands

later i snagged a pair of PV118 subs for $330.00

then later i traded two old bass cabs for two Behringer INuke amps

then two Peavey PV15 M's for $250.00

and lastly...

two Peavey PV12 M's for $200.00

Then i traded an old Ibanez 6 string electric for a Behringer ultra drive pro

it's not gorgeous or beautiful or new, but it gets the Job done...lol

That's the way to do it! I use the SoundCraft 16, myself, but you def'ly got a better deal. It's a great building / learning platform...it does benefit from an external EQ, though. The onboard Lexicon FX are more than passable. Used passive enclosures are plentiful but they're either beat to hell or the asking price is too high. I don't mind doing some cosmetic restoration but I'll pass on any enclosure with blown drivers / fried components unless it's next-to-free.

Actually, it probably sounds pretty durn good, you came in well under 2K, and can upgrade without having to chuck the whole thing.

Riis

 

[DWBass]

I have gotten some great deals through Craigslist myself snagging a set of, damn near brand new, Carvin LSx12's for $200. A 14 input Mackie 1402 VLZ mixer for $75. Bought an Alto (1000w) power amp from MF Stupid Deal of The Day for $99. I'm still slowly piecing together my PA. It's junky but it works. LOL! I have other PA gear but these are just the better buys.

 

[powmetalbassist]

Update:

Currently I have:

(2x) Yorkville E12 (copy) monitors (passive) 250 watts at 8 ohms
Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer
Crown XLS1000 350watts at 4ohms per side [for monitors]

total spent so far = $550.00

What is in the pipeline:


Looking at:
Crown XLS1500 525 watts at 4ohms per side [for mains]
Mackie Thump Series TH-12A 12" 2-Way Powered Loudspeaker

 

[modulusman]

Update:

Currently I have:

(2x) Yorkville E12 (copy) monitors (passive) 250 watts at 8 ohms
Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer
Crown XLS1000 350watts at 4ohms per side [for monitors]

total spent so far = $550.00

What is in the pipeline:


Looking at:
Crown XLS1500 525 watts at 4ohms per side [for mains]
Mackie Thump Series TH-12A 12" 2-Way Powered Loudspeaker

I would stay away from the Mackie thumps. They don't get very loud at all. The Mackie 450s are twice as loud on paper. If you can spend more money then look at Electro-voice, JBL, Yamaha, QSC

 

[4Mal]

Well not my experience and I have owned 5 Mackie mixers. The feature set on the fx is way better than the mixer the OP is looking at. more channels, stereo 28 band EQ, A feedback ferret, crossover,delay, parametric EQ, more auxes available for more monitor mixes. Built in effects also.

Yes the FX has lot's of features. The Mackie's channel strips are more clear and transparent. The 1202 VLZ Pro board is actually a really good board, unlike a lot of the stuff Mackie sells... Audio quality wise, the Mackie wins to my ear.

Mackie Thumps - stay strictly away. I had 2 of 3 fail after a power event. American Musical a supply fixed the two under their extended warranty and I sold the three off on CL and made the appropriate disclaimer. There were 5 1530's on the same line. None of them had a problem.

I really would skip the Second Crown and passive tops and snag a used set of something decent and powered. Mqckie 450's are strong, not my fav but I've played behind them many times. EV Live X, JBl PRX, 512 pr 612. You should be able to squeak in for a grand and they sound way better.

You'll still want at least 1 EQ, Reverb/Delay, probably a comp or two - you might look at Swypnes 4 channel DBX EQ in the GFS here.

Then you'll need a rack...

This is just one reason the digital board is worth the bread. You will spend the dough overtime .... My 16.4.2 replaced not only my old analog board but 10 spaces of outboard gear as well... Not to mention the insert snake and all the other interconnects ...

 

[Zooberwerx]

Update:

Currently I have:

(2x) Yorkville E12 (copy) monitors (passive) 250 watts at 8 ohms
Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer
Crown XLS1000 350watts at 4ohms per side [for monitors]

total spent so far = $550.00

What is in the pipeline:


Looking at:
Crown XLS1500 525 watts at 4ohms per side [for mains]
Mackie Thump Series TH-12A 12" 2-Way Powered Loudspeaker

So what's it gonna be: powered mains or power amp / passive enclosures?

We have a pair of Mackie-somethings as monitors and I'm somewhat underwhelmed. Sound good but take a lot of juice for relatively little volume. They're fine as monitors but if I had to swing one up on a tripod as a main, we'd be hurting. You can do better.

Riis

 

[cableguy]

We use some pole mounted Mackie 15's in my band. I had a fEARful 15/sub I built myself for bass use. We now use it for our band PA sub and it kicks the crap out of the powered Mackie sub we did use. Not real cheap because the driver is $250, but the rest you can build yourself for under $100. So $200 for a used power amp, $350 for a 15/sub, buy an active x-over and your set. You'll also be amazed at how much better your 12" mains will sound when you take the low end load off them.

 

[claytitan]

I was at GC two days ago. I am also looking for something reasonable. As much as I love the QSC stuff I just can't justify that kind of money for what my band does. I was looking at the Peavey pvxp12's. I thought they sounded really good. Pretty darn close to the QSC's for less than half the price. Volume seemed plenty adequate for bar gigs. Add a powered sub later and you've got a decent system IMO.

 

[4Mal]

We use some pole mounted Mackie 15's in my band. I had a fEARful 15/sub I built myself for bass use. We now use it for our band PA sub and it kicks the crap out of the powered Mackie sub we did use. Not real cheap because the driver is $250, but the rest you can build yourself for under $100. So $200 for a used power amp, $350 for a 15/sub, buy an active x-over and your set. You'll also be amazed at how much better your 12" mains will sound when you take the low end load off them.

No doubt about that. Last version if my PA used passive Mackie C200's on top of fEarful 12 sub's powered by a 2402 used a DBX crossover. Worked well those little 12's kick hard! 15's would have been better but, it would also mean goodbye Subaru, hello van... Not going to happen...

 

[cableguy]

Agreed on the 12/sub. I had one under my 12/6 for a while. They will kick like a mule........

 

[powmetalbassist]

Update:
Found a pair of used E10 monitors for 225 each boxing day shopping.

Currently I have:

(2x) Yorkville E12 (copy) monitors (passive) 250 watts at 8 ohms
(2x) Yorkville E10 monitors (passive) 200 watts @ 8 ohms
Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer
Crown XLS1000 350watts at 4ohms per side [for monitors]

total spent so far = $1150.00

What is in the pipeline:


Looking at:
Crown XLS1500 525 watts at 4ohms per side [for mains]
Yorkville NX 55P powered mains (550 watts)
Yorkville NX35 passive mains (500 watts @ 8 ohms)

 

[4Mal]

Ah, the slippery slope of doom... Welcome to the PA club. No matter what - do not even think about looking at lighting... You know I blame all this on Led Zeppelin. If it weren't for them I'd a stuck with cello and chamber music... My wallet knows why rock and roll was termed the devils music

 

[powmetalbassist]

Update:
So I ended up winning a Crown XLS 1500 in one of the many give aways I had signed up for over the holidays (just had to pay for shipping/customs). Have my self the beginnings of a PA now. Using the monitors and the XLS 1000 in my current band for practicing in a 20x20 room.

Currently I have:

(2x) Yorkville E12 (copy) monitors (passive) 200 watts at 8 ohms
(2x) Yorkville E10 monitors (passive) 200 watts @ 8 ohms
Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer
Crown XLS1000 350 watts at 4ohms per side [for monitors]
Crown XLS1500 525 watts at 4ohms per side [for mains]

total spent so far = $1250.00

What is in the pipeline:


Looking at:

 

[Jools4001]

Ah, the slippery slope of doom... Welcome to the PA club. No matter what - do not even think about looking at lighting... You know I blame all this on Led Zeppelin. If it weren't for them I'd a stuck with cello and chamber music... My wallet knows why rock and roll was termed the devils music

Ha ha...I know exactly what you mean. I started on the PA route for much the same reason as the OP and now spend my time building cabs, poring over power amp specs and working out options for subs...

Beginning to put a nice little system together and just took the plunge on an X32 rack, which is working out wonderfully so far even though I've only had it a couple of weeks....digital is definitely the way to go if you can afford the upfront cost, as others have found it lets you sell off a whole bunch of outboard and condense your rig

 

[headband]

Good thread! I'm also looking to do this, currently have two JBL EONs for mains and looking to add a JBL EON 18 sub. Right now though, we're in the mixer phase of the journey. Anybody have any input on the Mackie Pro FX22?

I'd skip the EON sub and go with the PRX line. 600 series mate well with EONS.

 

[headband]

You can build a pretty good sound PA with the JBL Eon G2 Series portable powered speakers. They sell used for a very good price and a lot of musicians I know think they sound better than the current Eons. Add a used PRX sub (or 2) and a used Allen and Heath 16:2 Mixwizard and you have a pretty decent sounding PA for not a lot of money.
The G2's are plentiful and the repair boards are reasonably available and not too expensive.