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Building a PA With What We Have

#21
Nah, 100hz is fine for directionality, even a tad higher if the tops appreciate it, would give more overall clarity.

What you've got in mind works. What I have in mind works better and costs less. 1x amp, 1x 3 way crossover and 1x two channel EQ required. Crossover should also give phase delay control on the tops and subs if you get a good one. You get a highpass on your subs, very important. I'd use a compressor in limiter mode as well if playing outside.
 
#22
You got a shedload of power in your mixer onboard amps to run your tops and monitors until they scream mercy when they are highpassed. The trick is getting the crossover inserted somewhere. You may need to route the whole mix through an aux if there is no inserts. Give us pics.
 
#23
Downunderwonder said:
You got a shedload of power in your mixer onboard amps to run your tops and monitors until they scream mercy when they are highpassed. The trick is getting the crossover inserted somewhere. You may need to route the whole mix through an aux if there is no inserts. Give us pics.
Click to expand...
What pics do you want him to give you that he hasn't?

If you go here:
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/live_sound/mixers/powered-mixers/emx_box_type/emx512sc/?mode=model
You can enlarge it and see a detail of his mixer. He has no Inserts, and no Auxes (other than the "Effects Out" I mentioned earlier). His "Effect Out" is his only discrete output besides Monitors (single line) and Mains (L/R). His only other output is the RCA Record Outs, which are prefader level of the mains - not level controllable - also pre-EQ. He also has no input level control, only output level off each channel strip, and no L/R Pan control on either channels or mains.

The mixer has a two channel amp that can either receive the L/R mains signal, OR a mix of the L/R mains in one channel, and the Monitor feed in the other. The amp is listed in the specs as actually being 125w "nominal," 500w " max before clip," while the brochure describes it as 500x500w. This does not sound much like a true 500X500w amp to me, especially considering the entire unit, mixer, DSP, and amp, only draws 450w of AC. This is a pretend 500x500w amp. The amp is rated only to feed 4 Ohms, but the manual also states that you can also use 8 Ohm speakers (it does not mention that you will get 1/2 the power).

They gave him built in compression and digital effects, apparently in exchange for having much control of the signal path.

You can see the manual for his mixer here:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#25
Downunderwonder said:
I'm on my phone at work, so getting knee deep searching through manuals isn't happening here!

How do you mix monitor? Same as front?

Are there onboard fx that are pre the "fx" send?
Click to expand...
Ah, I'm looking at a big screen. Much easier.

Each channel has a discrete monitor level feed control (if that is what you were asking).

The manual does not state definitively if the Effects Out is pre or post the digital effects, but it says the Effects Out pulls from the Effects Buss, so I would presume that is pre-Onboard Effects.
The Onboard Effects have separate "Return" levels for the Monitor and Mains. There is no Effects Return for external effects. Anything sent out the Effects Out can only be brought back in by bringing it back into a channel - not that this matters for what I was suggesting: using the Effects Out as a defacto Aux to give independent control over Sub feeds. At least the manual is kind enough to warn to make sure you set the Effects Send level to zero on the channel in which you bring it back in.

Oh, and he has built in compression available on channels 1-4. It has a single control of which Yamaha says "all of the pertinent parameters are
automatically adjusted for you....so that you can quickly achieve pro-quality compression without having to worry about a confusing multitude of settings." So, I don't know exactly what it does, but it implies that it is affecting both threshold AND ratio (I really doubt if it's changing attack, release or knee shape).

What this mixer needs is a few groups, at least 4 auxes, definitely input pots and pan controls, maybe a small matrix.....
.
.
.
.
Or, I might be spoiled.
 
#27
Note that I also edited my post and added info about his onboard compression while you were writing that.

Who knows about the modding. So much is printed circuit now inside these things. Not nearly as easy to see what's going on. "Busses" are really "virtual busses" in most of these designs.
 
#31
aleach said:
^
This.

I ran a very similar set up for awhile. Same mixer, one sub slaved off a power amp through the Mon out on the 512SC. It worked, but it sucked.

Also,Xover subs around 100Hz.
Click to expand...

What you did is not what I am proposing. You would have had lows in the tops if you ran them full range through the internal power amps.
 

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