Double Bass Bump on Realist pickup?

[endorka]

I have had a Realist on my double bass for a while now, and broadly speaking am happy with the sound from it.

I'll be fitting a new bridge soon, however, and have spared some thought to optimising the fitting of the bridge to the pickup. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this?

I recall from the initial fitting that there is a "bump" in the middle of the otherwise flat Realist pickup element.

This is slightly higher than the rest of the foil sandwich, and therefore causes the bridge foot to not have the full contact it does when the pickup is not there.

I assume this is detrimental to the acoustic sound of the instrument.

Is it also detrimental to the sound of the pickup? When installing the new bridge, should I carve out a small cavity on the base of the bridge foot to accomodate this bump, allowing the bridge foot to be flush with the body of the bass?

If these questions are answered in the manual, shoot me now I don't have the manual as I bought the pickup used.

Cheers!

Jennifer

 

[Ric Vice]

Jennifer,
If you have one of the older Realists there is a bump in the center of the element, actually there are two very small ones. One way to tell, oddly enough is by looking at the 1/4 connecting jack. If it has a smooth black cover with a blue rubber collar in the center, it's one of the older ones. The newer ones have a black cover with the words Realist in gold on the 1/4 jack and dosen't have that pronounced bump. I've never heard of anyone carving the bridge feet to compensate the bump, in fact I would think the piezo needs a uniform surface to wedge itself against for the best response.

Ric

 

[endorka]

Thanks Ric, it is one of the older kind, and your comment about the two bumps has jogged my memory, that is exactly what it has.

This is interesting because at the moment I am trying to diagnose why it is sounding so bad.

I did create a hollow in the bridge foot to accomodate the bump, as you point out maybe this is the reason? Before doing this there was a significant gap around the entire bridge foot because of this bump, which I cannot see being good for the acoustic sound of the instrument.

I've just tried my old bottom-of-the-range Shadow pickup fitted at the top of the bridge, and the sound quality is far, far better than that of the Realist. This cannot be right.

Several things spring to mind:

1) The hollow to accomodate the bump is ruining the sound from the Realist.

2) The Realist is "goosed".

3) Something bad is happening to the tone of the instrument between the top of the bridge and the bottom.

I am waiting for my new bridge blank to arrive. When it gets here hopefully I'll be able to narrow the above list down a bit.

Thanks again for your help, it is of great assistance trying to diagnose the woeful sound I am getting from the Realist at the moment.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

I tried that with my luth about 7 years ago. It actually caused the PU to stop working!! So don't do it. We suspect that it reduced the pressure so much there was no longer enough compression to drive the piezo. Luckily he filled it back in with wood putty and I've been fine since.

 

[endorka]

Thanks Robin, hopefully the new bridge will solve the probem then. That is certainly a better outcome than the Realist being broken.

In the meantime I'll be using the Shadow SH-SB2. When I used this previously I had it installed in the bridge wings. It sounded terrible - which is one of the reasons I went to the Realist. On a whim last night I installed it at the top of the bridge, BP100 style, and surprisingly it sounds very good.

Apparently it is possible to install the SH-SB2 under the bridge feet, like the Realist, but it seems a bit odd since the two elements are domes a couple of millimetres high, and the bridge seems a bit precarious balanced on top of them. I've never tried it for fear the bridge will fall over at the worst possible moment!

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Jennifer

 

[Ric Vice]

T
Apparently it is possible to install the SH-SB2 under the bridge feet, like the Realist, but it seems a bit odd since the two elements are domes a couple of millimetres high, and the bridge seems a bit precarious balanced on top of them. I've never tried it for fear the bridge will fall over at the worst possible moment!

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Jennifer

Jennifer,
Most likely the Realist has died, They Gage only warranties them for 1 year now, because on some basses they only last 4 years before the element wears out. I wouldn't go there with the SH-SB2 since it's made from piezo crystal rather than flexible piezo film. It will most likely score the top of your instrument even if it works.

Ric

 

[Jaromir]

Jennifer,
Most likely the Realist has died, They Gage only warranties them for 1 year now, because on some basses they only last 4 years before the element wears out.
Ric

I have Realist on one of my basses for more than 10 years and it works perfect. Two more newer Realists on other two basses, one for about 5 years. No problem. And I took them on and off many times to switch between basses etc. (as the old one sounds little different compare to the new one).

 

[chicagodoubler]

Christian McBride seems to like his...

If you can't get a good sound out of a Realist, the pickup probably isn't the problem.

 

[Ric Vice]

I have Realist on one of my basses for more than 10 years and it works perfect. Two more newer Realists on other two basses, one for about 5 years. No problem. And I took them on and off many times to switch between basses etc. (as the old one sounds little different compare to the new one).

Jaromir,
It's one of those quirky problems it your bass loves em then you're fine, if it doesn't then they don't last as long. Weird isn't it. David Gage attributed it to the differences string angles coming of the bridge. Hard to say. Here's what Sam Findlay from David Gage said at the time.

First, we’d like to make clear that the vast majority of our clientele DO NOT experience a drop-off in sound or response from The Realist. That being said, we do recognize that The Realist, after 5 or so years, will start to degrade gradually. As some of you have said, the pressure applied by the bridge feet is substantial and over time, it can take its toll on piezo ceramic elements. We have also decided, however, that the realistic sound the pick-up produces is a result of the unique combination of piezo size, quality, and the specific stimulation the element is afforded because of its placement under the bridge foot. –For us (and most of our customers, it seems,) the sound The Realist has become famous for is more important than durability beyond 5 years.

Why does it drop-off or degrade? Most of the evidence we’ve gathered is simple and empirical. It seems that certain bridges wear the element more intensely than others. We suspect that taller bridges, bridges that press with greater force against the top, wear the elements at a greater rate. Beyond that, we are not sure what the exact cause of the increased wear is, so we asked a couple of experts.

Rich Brooks, a piezo engineer at the American Piezo Coorporation, says, “there is a logarithmic deterioration or amelioration of a piezo’s properties over time.” Mr. Brooks says that there are many different reasons for this. He says, “[Deterioration] will be mitigated by the effects of temperature, other materials and mechanical interface.” He agreed with what we had hypothesized and didn’t see any way of avoiding the drop-off without substantially changing the element, an action that would alter the output and clearly diminish the true value of the pick-up.

Ric

 

[Robin Ruscio]

Interesting. FWIW, I have one of the earliest Realists, from 1999 or so and it still is the best PU I've owned.