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Double Bass But is it Jazz?

Don Kasper

Don Kasper

Gold Supporting Member
Dec 30, 2012
7,641
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Los Angeles/Burbank, CA
#1
From 1986, Mike Stern's "Upside Downside" record.
Every time I listen to this, I am blown away by the sheer virtuosity of both the composition and the improvisational skills of the performers.
I really like this, and I'm not interested in arguing whether it is "jazz" or "not". ..but I hope you. too, will like it.
Also, too - While listening to this, a line of fine, white powder seems to be leaking out of my speakers. Hmmm...???
Thanks.
 
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#4
I used to see Stern at small clubs in the Boston area ca. 1982-84, mostly with sax player Bill Evans (also with Miles a couple of times). He was mind blowing, although generally a little lit. I saw him at the Harvard Hasty Pudding Club (sitting on the floor about 3 feet in front of him and his two Yamaha amps) and he played a solo that started out Wes Montgomery and ended up all Hendrix-y. After he was done, he drained a Heineken and then fell back over his amps. I made some live tapes, but sadly, they disintegrated. I know I gave good copies to Mitch Forman (the keyboard player who led the band at those shows) but he apparently lost them. It's too bad, they were fantastic.

He later got straight, and while he's always been an incredible player, it was different.

I have another story about when I first met him in February '82 when I was going for my first lesson with Bruce Gertz on a Saturday morning after a drive through a hellacious snowstorm from Western Mass.,, but that's not a story for open publication.
 
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#7
Gilmourisgod said:
Saw him with Miles Davis once, unforunately Miles was a bit under the weather and literally played around 4 notes the whole show. Didn't miss him much, to be perfectly honest, the band was fantastic, particularly Mike Stern. I was obsessed with that album for a good year.
Click to expand...

That's too bad. Miles was fantastic when I saw him, although he started an hour late at UMass.
 
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#9
coyote1 said:
I used to see Stern at 55 Bar (Christopher Street) in NYC. Nice guy, great player. Unique. Played with wife Leni sometimes, and I saw BillFrisell with them there. Was a great club back in the 1980s.
Click to expand...
The 80s were a great time for jazz in Boston and NYC. I remember seeing Frisell with Wayne Krantz in the D# Group at the Willow Jazz Club in Somerville on Thanksgiving 1982. It was amazing (and the pumpkin pie was pretty good, too), despite there only being about 10 people there.
 
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#10
Don Kasper said:
From 1986, Mike Stern's "Upside Downside" record.
Every time I listen to this, I am blown away by the sheer virtuosity of both the composition and the improvisational skills of the performers.
I really like this, and I'm not interested in arguing whether it is "jazz" or "not". ..but I hope you. too, will like it.
Also, too - While listening to this, a line of fine, white powder seems to be leaking out of my speakers. Hmmm...???
Thanks.
Click to expand...

This album and Mike Stern were formative for me as a jazz guitar major in the 90’s. I played Mood Swings on my junior recital! Thanks for the memories! What a cool head. I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, but that tune was Jaco’s last studio recording. Really great stuff.
 
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#11
I don't think swing is a defining element that objectively makes or breaks music. Plenty of great music doesn't have it.
I do think swing needs to be present, however abstract, for music to be jazz. Things being different than other things shouldn't be a problem. I think once a backbeat is present, it shuts down the openness of swing and the music becomes something other than jazz. Just like when my work is a bunch of crackles and pops it ceases to be jazz and becomes improvised music. I've got other work with great drummers I'd argue to be free jazz.
Fusion is probably good enough of a name for the Stern track posted.
 
#16
Napoleon: Wait a minute now . . .
FZ: Napoleon, just put your horn down, just relax, put your head back, here comes the drill. Okay, ha ha ha, you know what I'm talkin' about? Okay . . . This is sort of like JAZZ in it's own peculiar way . . . JAZZ IS NOT DEAD, IT JUST SMELLS FUNNY . . . Okay, let's go!
George: Yeah, man, JAZZ, man, you know what I mean?

This is Be-Bop,
Even though you think it doesn't sound like that

(Be-Bop . . . ! That's no Be-Bop!)

😊

 
#18
Don Kasper said:
I love that Charlie Haden was not afraid of a Backbeat, and had little time for the dogmatic opinions of some of the "Free Jazz Police"...
"Free Your Mind, and Your Bass Will Follow"
IMFO, of course, as always.
I.Like.This.
I hope you do, too.
From 1987's - "Michael Brecker" recording.
Click to expand...

I like a lot of music that isn't jazz and even some with a backbeat. Being jazz isn't an end all/be all, but I do think it is OK if the word jazz has a meaning. My work is obviously not restricted to jazz.
This is an album I love:
 
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#19
“Jazz” is such a stupid semantic term and point of contention for gatekeeping corksniffers, imho. I’m pretty sure that the original intention of the term was closer to modern day usage of ‘BS’ … it’s pretty open ended, choose your own adventure - don’t argue, we’re all friends who like the same vibratory stuff regardless of what it’s called.

I, personally, dislike the term ‘jazz’ big time because of this kind of talk, but lack a better alternative.

But from a certain perspective, one could argue all vibratory phenomenon is ‘jazz’, and that a train car, flat tire, or busted radiator can ‘swing’ — But … what are we actually talking about?
 
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