Double Bass Buying my first "nice" bow

[Sean Peters]

I want to get some opinions on purchasing a better quality bow. My goals are to get more comfortable soloing in a jazz context, and I have been transcribing Jimmy Blanton and Slam Stewart, as well as working on Simandl, and playing etudes from my old trombone books. Up until now, I have always just made do with whatever was at hand, usually cheap fiberglass and carbon fiber. I started on French, and experimented a bit with German, but never felt comfortable with it, so I think sticking with French is my best option. I know that the majority of arco players in jazz have been German bow-ers, but seeing/hearing Oliver Babaz and Christian McBride gives me inspiration and hope (and depression! ) And there's always Mingus, too! Like Mingus, I'm using gut strings, and I want something that will work best with gut, so any pointers about what bow length, weight, hair type is optimal for gut, in jazz, would be appreciated. Should I be considering Baroque period style bows? I realize that the majority of this is player preference, and I am probably at the start of a long journey of experimentation and discovery, but I just want to make the most informed decision I can. Looking for something in the $250-500 range, but might be tempted a little higher. I saw this on Gollihur, and thought it might be a viable option.
Pernambuco Double Bass Bow
If you've made it this far, thank you! I look forward to reading your thoughts and opinions. I hope you had a safe and merry Christmas, and wish you the best in the coming new year!
Sean

 

[Sean Peters]

This is what I'm using currently. Carbon fiber, don't know the length or weight. It came with the purchase of a bass.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I know times are what they are, but the best way to bow shop is to try them out in person and kind of at the same time. If there's a shop that will let you check out 2 to 4 at a time, by mail/shipping, in these COVID times that would be best. Otherwise, like I said in the thread where somebody wants to buy a new bass, things are going to change over the next few months, so why rush into a less informed decision now when soon(ish) you'll be able to walk into a shop and try out 4 or 5 bows in your price range, as well as a couple of higher and lower price, just to bookend what you're looking at.
The thing about trying to find what optimum weight/length/hair/etc. is you are looking for what is optimal for you. To quote Lyle Lovett, what's riches to you ain't riches to me. The bow has to feel right in your hand. Not mine or anyone else's.

 

[Sean Peters]

Thank you Ed! That is wonderful, practical advice, which I will take to heart in making my decision. I am excited for what the coming months will bring!

 

[AGCurry]

I too am a relative novice with the bow and didn't understand the effect, positive or negative, that a bow will have on performance... until I got a few in my hand. As you probably know, high-level strings players often have multiple bows, some costing more than their instruments, for different styles.

In your price range, the Gollihur bow is really good for the money. I have one, and it seems to work better for my "orchestral-strung" bass, while my KC Strings "[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]" bow, at $390, works better for my gut-strung bass. After I bought the latter, I found out that my teacher had inquired about purchasing several of them for students!

 

[Sean Peters]

Thank you, Andy!

 

[LouisF]

There's a slew of great options at this price point, and most shops will let you try the bow for a week:

New/Old Stock Jon Paul 'Fusion Silver' Carbon Fiber/Pernambuco German-style 3/4 Bass Bow JP705 | Morey's Music Store Inc. | Reverb

https://www.stringemporium.com/finale-bass-bows.htm

UB Workshop Double Bass Bow, French and German Styles

BASS BOW FRENCH CARBON COMPOSITE, HALF-LINED EBONY FROG, NICKEL WIRE GRIP

 

[Dogfightgiggle]

I waited until my teacher told me my first bow was holding me back then I just found something balanced and comfortable (it’s a somewhat shorter, lighter German bow but people like different things).

 

[Jason Hollar]

I’ll chime in as the probably the worst “bowist” I’ve ever heard lol. Of the three or so bows I’ve owned over the years, they’ve all been these heavy, bastardized french bows with a German frog - thrown in with a used bass purchase - as the previous owners seemed more than happy to get rid of them.

A few years ago when I was at Shank’s for a routine bass chiro adjustment, I asked if I could try a “really good bow” just for fun. Mike pulls down a ~$1500 bow and it was amazing. Kinda like Harry Potter in Olivander’s ... the balance and tone was incredible. Wow, maybe I can make nice sounds with a bow? Needless to say I handed it back, thanked him, and muggled on with my spiros and my carefree pizzicato lifestyle.

Moral of the story? Don’t skimp on your bow.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

The Finale, as Louis recommended ^^^, from String Emporium gets good reviews and the price is right.

 

[AGCurry]

A few years ago when I was at Shank’s for a routine bass chiro adjustment, I asked if I could try a “really good bow” just for fun. Mike pulls down a ~$1500 bow and it was amazing.

I did the same thing at St. Louis (satellite of KC Strings). I played several, with prices ranging from $390 to over $2000. I picked the cheapest one (mentioned above) because it felt best. The salesperson, who is a better bassist than I, agreed with me. So price does not necessarily determine best.

 

[birgebass]

I have two bows, both German grip. I can barely play French grip due to injuries sustained from a broken hand from my skateboarding days, so take that into consideration.
I have a nice Khunla bow a dear friend has allowed me to use for the last several years. I am pretty sure it is the shop model, which retails new for around $1000 I think. I love this bow, and have used it almost exclusively for the past few years. I had a couple guys in the symphony use it and they remarked on how nice it played.
I also have a Finale bow that I got probably 10 years ago, and I gotta say, it punches way above its weight. I had it rehaired almost as soon as I got it, so I can’t speak too much on the quality of the hair that comes on it. During my first and only experiment with gut strings, I actually thought it bowed easier than my nicer bow.
I guess all in all, it’s best to experiment if you can, but at your price point, I’d say that from my experience the Finale bow is a great option.

 

[Anthony White]

When it was time for me to buy a better bow, my teacher sent me home with six. I told him my price range (up to $1k USD) and he only sent me home with bows in my price range, but he didn't tell me the specific price of each bow I took home, because he didn't want the number to influence my decision.

I quickly narrowed it down to two bows that had quite different characters. One was really light and felt very nimble. The other was heavier and drew sound from the E string really easily, where the lighter one was harder. This second was the one I chose, and then I discovered the price was $650. I didn't ask what the price of any of the others was.

If you are able to take a selection of bows home with you that are in your price range, and the shop will agree to not tell you the price until you've chosen a bow, I really recommend it as an approach.

 

[Deleted member 132197]

There's a slew of great options at this price point, and most shops will let you try the bow for a week:

New/Old Stock Jon Paul 'Fusion Silver' Carbon Fiber/Pernambuco German-style 3/4 Bass Bow JP705 | Morey's Music Store Inc. | Reverb

https://www.stringemporium.com/finale-bass-bows.htm

UB Workshop Double Bass Bow, French and German Styles

BASS BOW FRENCH CARBON COMPOSITE, HALF-LINED EBONY FROG, NICKEL WIRE GRIP

The Finale, as Louis recommended ^^^, from String Emporium gets good reviews and the price is right.

I second the Finale. I use the German Bow as my main bow and it's great!

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Gut playing bow snob here. A modern bow, especially a synthetic stick, simply isn’t going to work on gut and will sound like nasal, reedy trash.

Here’s where it gets weird.

Ideally you’ll end up with a period bow, which can be had for not too much more than your price range, especially now while the market is ice cold. Call Quantum Bass Center.

If you decide to continue playing French, I’d recommend a very light Baroque style bow, in the range of 100 grams. It will float over the strings and not choke them.

But if you can hack switching to German, which is what most people played in the gut era, get a massive “shovelhead” that weighs at least 150 grams.

Yes, the disparity doesn’t make sense at first blush. But it works.

I owned this one for years, and it made my gut bass sound like a pipe organ.

SOLD - circa 1880 German bow (pernambuco)

 

[Ed S]

My wife was recently shopping for a nicer quality carbon fiber fiddle bow. She contacted one of the makers and they sent her (IIRC) 6 or so bows to try - I think ranging from $300-1200. Kinda blew my mind when the case showed up at the house.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

As others have mentioned, best thing is to have several at once you can try, and don’t reveal the prices to yourself beforehand. I told my luthier buddy that I wanted to upgrade and not spend more than X. So he sent me home with a box of like 7-8 bows. I went through each of them several times, narrowing down to the one I liked best (which was not the most expensive in the bunch). It was $750 less 10% for Covid recession pricing. It’s a Dörfler, Octagonal stick, ebony frog w/parisian eye. I’m sure one day I’ll find another but for now it’s perfect.

 

[Sean Peters]

Thanks, everyone!

 

[Ed S]

I hope the OP doesn't mind if I invite a slight hijack, asking people when they felt the need to upgrade to what price-range bow?

I'm very much a beginner w/ the bow. Yesterday, I was playing some ensemble pieces w/ 2 fiddles, and was bowing some pieces (badly) that I had only been able to pizz before. Both fiddlers joked, "Next thing you know you'll be wanting a new bow!"

Yeah, I know they were just busting my chops (I LOVE how much we laugh when we are together!) But I strongly responded that I couldn't envision getting good enough to want a new bow. I thought a discussion here could be interesting.

BG/oldtime is my wheelhouse. I started playing classical at my wife's urging, as that is her preference. She bought me a bow that looks very similar to this for a Father's Day or something. Somewhere in the $2-300 range. (We've learned long ago when it comes to instruments, not to waste money on the absolute bargain basement entry-level stuff. Kinda Sears good/better/best approach - don't go below "better".)

I just started lessons, and am appreciating what I get from working arco - just how it overall improves me as a player. And I'm enjoying our little ensemble and the ability to add arco (sparingly!) into my BG/oldtime. But I do not play jazz and am NEVER going to audition to play in an orchestra or anything. So I really don't think I'll ever need anything better than a decent practice bow.

So what are your experiences/thoughts as to when you decided your existing bow was holding you back or otherwise not filling your needs? When you made that decision, what ballpark price ranges did you move from/to?

 

[AGCurry]

For many years, all I could say was "I own a bow;" I figured I could play a few notes with it if I ever had to.

When I started taking lessons two years ago, I had to learn how to hold the bow (which I'm still working on!). Any bow will work for that, but playing actual music can be a challenge with a crappy bow.

I think the process of getting a better bow begins when you suspect that things might be easier than they currently seem. You order what looks like "better" online, maybe. You go to a shop and ask to try some bows.

For me, the light went on in a shop, when a certain bow did indeed "make things easier." I'm almost afraid to try a very-expensive bow ... I would need to have it.