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BX1500 vs. Genz Benz Shuttle Max 12

banjo5

banjo5

Dec 8, 2009
145
4
Cincinnati
#1
Starting to narrow down my choices for a new (to me) old, tired back friendly rig. Brand new BX1500's are $569 with a year warranty. I can buy a Shuttle max 12 on here, used for about $700. My situation is this... I've got a 4 hm 1000 watt 21012L schroeder cab that I love, but it's just not enough volume on big stages. I'm thinkin I can add a 15 for low end support and to move more air. It seems like most Class Ds won't do 2 ohms (to run my cab and a 15 (8 ohm) cab bridged at 2.6 ohms.) So, I will need an amp that is biampable, or at a minimum, can be run mismatched. I think the BX1500 and the Shuttle 12 either will work for me. So, the questions are...
Any opinions on sound quality, versatility, reliabilty, etc???? I've read some mixed reveiws on the BX1500 reliabilty about the ribbon cables, but not mch else.
 
#2
I own a BX1500, and love it. Your idea to add an 8 ohm 15 with a 4 ohm 2/12 is probably not going to yield the results you desire in bridged mode. The BX1500 is rated to run bridged to 4 ohms, not 2. It'll run 2 ohms per channel in bi amp mode. You may get an improvement in tone by bi amping, and this will work. Probably do better with a 4 ohm 15, or 2/15.
 
#3
AFAIK, the Shuttle max 12 cannot be bridged, so, you are getting two Shuttle 6's with more EQ options. The BX1500 can be bridged to 4 ohms, has a crossover, compressor, two eq sections that can be run together. I've had mine for a year now and love it.
 
#4
banjo5 said:
I'm thinkin I can add a 15 for low end support and to move more air. It seems like most Class Ds won't do 2 ohms (to run my cab and a 15 (8 ohm) cab bridged at 2.6 ohms.)
Click to expand...

Firstly adding a 15 isnt going to add any more low end based upon the driver size. Mixing different speaker cabs is a tone crap shoot room to room at best. You may win every once and a while, but you will mostly loose. If you like your current cab, get a second one.

I dont think either of those amps can run at 2 Ohms bridged. You can run each side at 2 Ohms, or bridged at 4. This may or may not give you the power you are looking for.
 
#5
Just for clasrification, I'm not talking about bridging a 4 ohm and an 8 ohm cab. What I'm talking about is a 4 ohm cab on one output and an 8 ohm on teh other output. From what I understand, they are discrete outputs in stereo mode.
 
#7
CL400Peavey said:
This is correct.

What is it about your current cab that you dont like?
Click to expand...

My current cab is a monster. I love it. Schroeder 21012L. 2-10's and a 12, with a tweeter, rated at 1000 watts and it weighs 56 pounds. What more could you ask for? MORE VOLUME! I'm just thinking I could add a 15 on big stages, outside gigs to give me some more thump. Seems like most single 15's are 8 ohm.
 
#8
CL400Peavey said:
Firstly adding a 15 isnt going to add any more low end based upon the driver size. Mixing different speaker cabs is a tone crap shoot room to room at best. You may win every once and a while, but you will mostly loose. If you like your current cab, get a second one.

I dont think either of those amps can run at 2 Ohms bridged. You can run each side at 2 Ohms, or bridged at 4. This may or may not give you the power you are looking for.
Click to expand...
I don't think the GB can be run at 2 ohms per channel; the Carvin can.
 
#9
banjo5 said:
My current cab is a monster. I love it. Schroeder 21012L. 2-10's and a 12, with a tweeter, rated at 1000 watts and it weighs 56 pounds. What more could you ask for? MORE VOLUME! I'm just thinking I could add a 15 on big stages, outside gigs to give me some more thump. Seems like most single 15's are 8 ohm.
Click to expand...

A single 8 ohm 115 isnt going to add much noticeable volume, but it can cause phasing which can make your sound disappear depending on location in the audience. Adding a second matching cab to the one you have, and doubling the wattage with a amp capable will net you about 6 dB increase in volume.
 
#10
Stick with another 4 Ohm cab. I'm not one to suggest mix matched cabs, but I'm not going to tell you not to do it either. An 8 Ohm cab is going to be wasted money. The BX1500 along side it's BRX410 (4 Ohm) brother is an amazing combination. If anything, get a 212 cab that is 4 Ohm to go with the Schroeder.
 
#11
The Carvin allows you to control the volume for each cab separately. The Shuttle doesn't.

If I were in your shoes, I'd add another Schroeder 21012L and use whichever head sounds best to you.

BTW, cab wattage ratings are typically meaningless because drivers will reach physical displacement limitations long before their voice coils reach the thermal ratings implied by max Wattage ratings.
 
#13
my $0.02. Given: you dig your cab. more volume is better achieved with moving more air than pushing more juice. I agree with Jazzdogg, get another matching cab. (more of what you already like). Then use your own ears to decide which amp works better (for you). I personally use the shuttlemax 12.0. Two power sections at 600w into 4 ohms is HUGE into good 4 ohm cabs like yours. I use two 8 ohm berg. 112's and that is huge (not to mention articulate as hell at the same time). Also, (which is what I like about my rig) your sound is the same on small or large stage,just a matter of one cab vs. two cabs.
anyway, cheers and good luck with your quest
 
#14
Good stuff guys. Guess I was way off base on this. I Thought I could just throw power and speakers at it to get more volume. I didn't think about non matching cabs not playing well with one and other. Makes sense now. Guess I need to find another 21012L cab, or start over.
 
#16
I've read many posts about mixing cabs. The concern being that two very different cabs will produce the same freqs in different ways. Thus causing phasing problems and cancellations. That all makes sense, to me. But, what if you bi-amp and let one cab get freqs below the crossover, and the other cab get freqs above. The two cabs aren't fighting each other. Well, I don't know about the Shuttle Max 12, but the Carvin can bi-amp.
 
#17
nick98338 said:
I've read many posts about mixing cabs. The concern being that two very different cabs will produce the same freqs in different ways. Thus causing phasing problems and cancellations. That all makes sense, to me. But, what if you bi-amp and let one cab get freqs below the crossover, and the other cab get freqs above. The two cabs aren't fighting each other.
Click to expand...

With properly designed cabinets, designs that consider all of these details, combining different sized cabinets is not an issue regardless of popular internet lore. Specifically, all of our cabinets are designed with these combinations in mind and work well together. I have discussed the specific details on this topic in several other threads, you might search on them if you are interested.
 
#19
CL400Peavey said:
Is there anywhere frequency response and spl charts are published to make comparisons on genz cabs?
Click to expand...

No, we do not publish detailed FR data because it's so often mis-interpreted that they have less than zero value to most customers. When I did post a detailed plot of one of our cabinets here on TB, a few armchair reviewers read way more into it than was really there and led to some absurd conclusions that flew in the face of real world performance.

You are free, of course, to measure and compare at will using whatever method you feel represents the data you wish to learn, modifying parameters like variablespace, boundery conditions, horizontal and vertical polars, sample rates, averaging algorithems, smoothing algorithems, distance, power level, impulse and group delay interactions etc... all things that vary the display of information if you really want to compare but frankly cloud the question of how good, or even how suitable the cabinet might be for YOUR particular tastes and playing style.

IMO, it takes a fairly detailed data set to accurately describe how a speaker is likely to perform in the real world... two speakers with identical simplified (as in ignoring important variables left out of all simplified plots) plots are likely to sound different enough as to be disturbing to the average player without them knowing or even caring why. This makes the two plots misleading as they do not return the same real world experience.

If you have any better ways of communicating the more complete and complex data without it becoming so complicated that it becomes useless to most, I'm all ears.
 

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