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Cabinet ohms question?

B

BTSbassist09

Nov 13, 2007
25
0
#1
So, i've come to the decision that I am NOT going to get the Ampeg B200R. Rather, i'd like to save up and purchase an Avatar cabinet, a power amp (Crown?), and the SansAmp RBI preamp. This being said, I have some questions about Avatar cabinets.

My bands play small/bigger medium venues. We never play anywhere astoundingly big, though. (House Of Blues, etc.) I want to know:

1. How many watts preamp should I get?
2. What ohm cabinet should I get, if I one day would maybe like to add a second cabinet?
3. What cabinet should I get? I was eyeing the 2x10, because it's small, and thinking that maybe one day I could add a 1x12.

Any thoughts?
 
#2
BTSbassist09 said:
So, i've come to the decision that I am NOT going to get the Ampeg B200R. Rather, i'd like to save up and purchase an Avatar cabinet, a power amp (Crown?), and the SansAmp RBI preamp. This being said, I have some questions about Avatar cabinets.

My bands play small/bigger medium venues. We never play anywhere astoundingly big, though. (House Of Blues, etc.) I want to know:

1. How many watts preamp should I get?
2. What ohm cabinet should I get, if I one day would maybe like to add a second cabinet?
3. What cabinet should I get? I was eyeing the 2x10, because it's small, and thinking that maybe one day I could add a 1x12.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
What do your guitarists have/plan on having? What style of music?

The below is assuming you are in a band similar to mine: loud rock, 2 guitar players with half stacks, loud drums.

Preamps don't have wattages. I'd assume you meant poweramp?
In poweramps, watts are cheap. For your needs, I'd look for something that can be bridged at 4 ohms, with 1000 - 2000w bridged at 4 ohms. The extra power is nice, it's not too expensive, and the flexibility is really nice. Look at QSC PLX series amps, as well as Stewart World series amps.

You could start with a 2x10, if your guitar players aren't super loud. Speakers add volume faster than wattage does. Personally, I'd suggest a 2x12 or 4x10, but a 2x10 with a 12 can get pretty loud, and would allow you to scale your rig when funds allow.

If you're planning on running two cabs, I suggest 8 ohms each, for a combined 4 ohm load. If you're planning on running one cab, I'd go with 4 ohms.

I'd need more info about your situation to be able to judge effectively, though.
 
#3
I have a small 4x12 and a 2000 watt marshall head... I can cover loud, and soft gigs, and the rig takes up half my backseat...

Power amp, get a crown 2000 watter...

Get either a 4 ohm 4x10, or 2 8 ohm 2x10s...

You can take both for a 4x10 to larger shows, and one for the smaller show...
 
#4
Well, in my one band, it's 2 guitars with Marshall half stacks. We're not really LOUD, though. In my indie band, it's just a fender combo, but it's pretty damn loud cause our drummer plays REALLY loud. i'd say my indie band is louder than my rock one.

I'm thinking i'm gonna go with the 2x10. And yes, I meant poweramp. I'm sorry! But if i'm just sticking with a 2x10 for now, should I still get a 1000 watt power amp? cause the 2x10 is only 500W RMS and even if i do get a 12", i never plan on ever using more than like 500 watts. I'd just want the extra speaker to evenly distribute the wattage to ensure that when i do go louder, i'm not blowing my speakers.
 
#6
I'd say good call on avoiding the B200R. The Sansamp RBI/Power Amp combination is a good one, lots of headroom, and can be easy on your wallet. When shopping for power amps, weight is a big factor, as when combined with heavy rack case, the whole rack can get heavy.

These days I envy the beauty in "all-in-one" simplicity offered by a bass head, especially the small, portable ones like Markbass heads.

If you can afford the price and size, go with a 4x10 or 2x12.

Otherwise a 2x10now/1x12later will get plenty loud as well. If you play decently loud at all though, it might be best to save up for what will get you were you need to be i.e. 2x10/1x12 or 4x10 or 2x12.
 
#7
BTSbassist09 said:
So, i've come to the decision that I am NOT going to get the Ampeg B200R. Rather, i'd like to save up and purchase an Avatar cabinet, a power amp (Crown?), and the SansAmp RBI preamp. This being said, I have some questions about Avatar cabinets.

My bands play small/bigger medium venues. We never play anywhere astoundingly big, though. (House Of Blues, etc.) I want to know:

1. How many watts preamp should I get?
2. What ohm cabinet should I get, if I one day would maybe like to add a second cabinet?
3. What cabinet should I get? I was eyeing the 2x10, because it's small, and thinking that maybe one day I could add a 1x12.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
I use a QSC-PLX 1202 and it's 1200 watts and is more than I've ever needed.

Get 8 ohm cabs so you can add another 8 ohm later. This will bring it down to 4 ohms which most bridged power amps can handle. If you start with a single 4 ohm and add another 4 ohm later it will bring the impedance down to 2 which is too low for most if not all bridged power amps.

I think for rock & roll you need at least a single 4x10. (jmho)
 
#8
BTSbassist09 said:
Well, in my one band, it's 2 guitars with Marshall half stacks. We're not really LOUD, though. In my indie band, it's just a fender combo, but it's pretty damn loud cause our drummer plays REALLY loud. i'd say my indie band is louder than my rock one.

I'm thinking i'm gonna go with the 2x10. And yes, I meant poweramp. I'm sorry! But if i'm just sticking with a 2x10 for now, should I still get a 1000 watt power amp? cause the 2x10 is only 500W RMS and even if i do get a 12", i never plan on ever using more than like 500 watts. I'd just want the extra speaker to evenly distribute the wattage to ensure that when i do go louder, i'm not blowing my speakers.
Click to expand...

To answer your question man, don't worry about getting an excessively powerful poweramp if you are only starting with a 2x10 or equivalent. Just be sensible with gains if you run it at full power.
 
#9
amos said:
To answer your question man, don't worry about getting an excessively powerful poweramp if you are only starting with a 2x10 or equivalent. Just be sensible with gains if you run it at full power.
Click to expand...

To be honest with you man, i'm just pretty clueless when it comes to all of this stuff. One of the reasons I started posting here is to better my knowledge when it comes to the electronics and ohms and such.

So: If I get an Avatar 2x10 at 8 ohms with 500w RMS handling, will I be good if I get, say, a Crown power amp that is 400W at 8 ohms?

And also, if I were to get say, another 8 ohm 2x10 or a 12", then would that make it 4 ohms total, if I ran both cabinets through the power amp?

- Andy
 
#11
BTSbassist09 said:
To be honest with you man, i'm just pretty clueless when it comes to all of this stuff. One of the reasons I started posting here is to better my knowledge when it comes to the electronics and ohms and such.

So: If I get an Avatar 2x10 at 8 ohms with 500w RMS handling, will I be good if I get, say, a Crown power amp that is 400W at 8 ohms?

And also, if I were to get say, another 8 ohm 2x10 or a 12", then would that make it 4 ohms total, if I ran both cabinets through the power amp?

- Andy
Click to expand...

I'll be the first to say that after spending time around these boards you will learn about all of it. I was EXACTLy like you when I first signed up for talkbass back in 2003. I was upgrading my rig and learning about gear all at the same time. The crown will work just fine with the Avatar 8 ohm 2x10. a 4 ohm load is a result of two 8 ohm cabs run in parallel (daisy chained, if you well). I don't know which Crown power amp you are referring to, however I am going to assume it's a two-channel amplifier. So. If it's bridgable (using power from both channels to create one powerful channel) then having two cabs you would hook the amp to one enclosure, then run a cable from one 8 ohm enclosure to the other 8 ohm enclosure, creating a 4 ohm impedence on the amplifier.

If it is not bridgable, or you choose not to bridge it, you still have two options with a two channel amp. Run a cable from each channel of the amp to each speaker enclosure, with two 8 ohm cabs, your amp would see two 8 ohm loads. OR Run both cabs off one channel, just like you would with bridging, only difference will be less power. Most Crown amps bridge, I think. This may sound confusing but once you see it in context, it's pretty easy.

Which Crown model are you looking at?

One quick note about Furman power conditioners, when I was a novice and putting my rig together I thought that you had to have a power conditioner as a way to plug crap in a rack. This not the case. They are glorified power strips, and there are multitude of ways you can save your rack space for other stuff or just simply buy a smaller rack... though they are still nice.
 
#12
I'm looking at the Behringer Europower EP1500 power amp now. I've read reviews on it, and for the money, it appears to be very good! It says it's 280W per channel at 8 ohms, so if I get an 8 ohm 2x10, that will work great. It also says that it's 450W at 4 ohms, so does that mean that if I get a 2nd cabinet and bridge the 2 together, it'll be 450W?
 
#13
Or, okay. On another, smaller Behringer power amp, it says it's 500W at bridged mono operation. Does this mean that'll i'll get 500W, but only through one channel? And that should be okay since I'm only gonna need a power amp for my preamp, right? Cause i'm thinking 500W at bridged mono, and an cab with an RMS of 500W.. that'd be good to pair it up, right?
 
#14
BTSbassist09 said:
Or, okay. On another, smaller Behringer power amp, it says it's 500W at bridged mono operation. Does this mean that'll i'll get 500W, but only through one channel? And that should be okay since I'm only gonna need a power amp for my preamp, right? Cause i'm thinking 500W at bridged mono, and an cab with an RMS of 500W.. that'd be good to pair it up, right?
Click to expand...

First I should say that as I am currently having problems with my power amp, make sure you buy a quality power amp. Crown, QSC, Crest, Stewart, etc. Behringer is a cheaper brand though they have some good stuff like their mixers, for all I know their poweramps could be a Crown copy. But QSC RMX amps are decent (850w bridged@4ohms minimum), and can be found very cheap used.

Onto the power (wattage) issue, Despite what some one at guitar center might tell you, matching the amps power output to the speakers RMS power handling is not exact science as you might think.

In my personal experience, with a pre/power rig, you want as much as power as you can get for extra headroom and possible expandability. For instance I run two 8ohm speakers with a power handling spec of 300W. My power amp puts out 300w a channel at 8 ohms. This should be a "perfect match" right? Wrong. I clip my power amp easily running each channel at 300w. This could have something to do with the high output of my preamp, but my point is that it's a lot nicer not having to worry about cranking/clipping your amp by having extra power on hand, than vice versa. Having extra available power is what's known as headroom...this is a good thing.

So to reiterate, by as high-quality/high-power power amp as you can afford. It's nearly always, in this situation, better to have way more power than you need, rather than what you might think is "just the right amount" or too little. Even if you only start with a 2x10.

Eegatz, I better get to bed.

-David
 
#16
BTBassist: An excellent poweramp can be found in the Talkbass classifieds for $350, like a QSC PLX-series or Crest. I bought my QSC off of Ebay for that price (350). Mine costs $600 new.

If you must have new gear however, get a QSC RMX850 or equivalent Crown XS400, though search talkbass for info/reviews on the Crown, cause I have no experienec with them.

Good luck, and if you still have questions, ask away.:)
 

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