• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Cabinet(s) to handle it all

K

kneedriver

Sep 6, 2013
12
0
#1
Hi everybody.

Wondering if I can pick your brain.
I play guitar in a noise rock band. But I use baritone and bass on occasion for pieces too -- and octave stuff/loud volume/feedback.
I started with a Music Man 210 65 combo. Loved it. Blew the speakers.
I switched and got a Music Man 130 Reverb head so it could handle all I was throwing at it -- I love the MM tone.

I initially paired the head with a 212 ported MM cabinet, but I was missing the brassy highs and walloping bass of the 10s in the combo. I tried the head with an Ampeg 1x15 bass cab I had. Sounded amazing, and could handle the lows, but it also dampered the guitar tones too. I was looking to maybe pair a smaller cab on top with 10s - like wide range 10s or guitar 10s? Or maybe go for a whole new larger cab altogether that can handle it all? I see guitarsists and bassists using these Emperor cabs now that look like they can handle armageddon, much less be built with odd speaker combinations (1x15 and 2x10 in the same cab, etc)...
I want something that's not expressly built for bass (modern cabs also have tweeters which sound awful with guitar) but that is also more beefy than a standard guitar cab... Also 12s tend to sound very traditionlly "guitar-like" and I have noticed when I use 10s and 15s with guitar it really turns into a whole new thing.

Help, what should I do?
 
#3
2x15 is something i was considering. i love the dick dale type of tone -- except with loads of fuzz and noise in front of it. those old Fender 2x15s that I have found though tend to be overpriced for the shape that they are usually in. Anyone ever use a repro of those style cabs?
 
#6
kneedriver said:
2x15 is something i was considering. i love the dick dale type of tone -- except with loads of fuzz and noise in front of it. those old Fender 2x15s that I have found though tend to be overpriced for the shape that they are usually in. Anyone ever use a repro of those style cabs?
Click to expand...

You need to realize that 15's dont have a sound, neither do 10's or 12's. Each cab design will sound different.

The specific 15's I quoted have fairly good upper mid response, and very good low end response for a full range driver. Per old fener 215's, I would pass on outdated gear for what you are trying to do.
 
#7
CL400Peavey said:
You need to realize that 15's dont have a sound, neither do 10's or 12's. Each cab design will sound different.

The specific 15's I quoted have fairly good upper mid response, and very good low end response for a full range driver. Per old fener 215's, I would pass on outdated gear for what you are trying to do.
Click to expand...

The old showman cabs were JBL equipped...

Perhaps try a cabinet built for eminence commonwealths... I think they were intended to be modern copies of old school JBL's.
 
#8
would it be a dumb idea to just get an used 4x12 Marshall type of cab and put two heavy duty 12s and two reg 12s? Or is that dumb? Trying to figure out a solution that is road worthy but doesn't cost $1000 either. I also thought about just getting an Orange 410 or Marshall 1965B 410 cab that would fit squarly atop my Ampeg 1x15. Running the Music Man head into both?

The Music Man sounds so great, both as a guitar amp and a bass amp. I wish I had a cab situation I could say the same for.
 
#16
A couple of years ago I built a prototype bass cab that combined a 12" guitar speaker with a beefy 15" woofer. The feedback I got from players who tried it was mixed. It sounded pretty good for solo bass, but didn't sit in the mix very well. In retrospect - duh. It was clashing with the guitars, fighting a losing battle for the same tonal slot.

As a guitar cab, it was too big for what it delivered, and had too much bottom end, stepping on the bass player's toes.

So that's one of the challenges of doing a dual-role cab: How to sit in the mix well in both roles. Having had a couple of years to ponder my failure, I now think I've figured it out, and have another prototype (using a different configuration) in the pipeline.

An area where I'm weak is, understanding the sort of head amps that might be used on a dual-role cab. Kneedriver, is your Musicman happy with a four-ohm load?
 
#17
@ Duke --

I think your proto cab might find a following in power trio's, one guitar, bass and drums. Maybe not enough of a following to make financial sense but that's a whole 'nother deal. :)

A lot of us like playing in trios. It allows us to "stretch out" a bit on bass, playing point/counterpoint, harmonies/counter-melodies, or just "filling more space"/ playing more stuff.

Something weird happens though when the 1 guitarist takes a lead....it sounds "empty". With a tone that's set up to support the band rather than "drive" it....it doesn't matter how many notes we play, it still sounds empty. Part of that is due to not filling up sonic space. With the bass woofer/guitar driver combo, we can get that sonic space back/fill it up without the second guitar.

Caveat: my band consists of one electric and one acoustic guitar. On "more rocky type stuff", the singer sets the acoustic down and we are essentially a 3-piece plus a singer.

Caveat #2: if you build your ideas around my little band, you will surely end up in the poor house. :p
 
#18
kneedriver said:
Hi everybody.

I want something that's not expressly built for bass (modern cabs also have tweeters which sound awful with guitar) but that is also more beefy than a standard guitar cab... Also 12s tend to sound very traditionlly "guitar-like" and I have noticed when I use 10s and 15s with guitar it really turns into a whole new thing.

Help, what should I do?
Click to expand...

I think you should try out an old bandmaster 2x15 with good condition speakers. I played in a band with two guitarists with that exact MM amp and an old silverface bandmaster. The BMaster is a hell of a piece. Bass tone through it was very old school, but bari and guitar could go anywhere with it. Definitely wide enough range for big bottom (kinda loose) and scritchy highs if you need for noise. Like people will tell you here, 15s can be pretty bright depending on the design.

I'd also avoid emperor because the premium you pay for their looks and name is a bit steep. Also wary of the "unscientific" speaker configurations but without trying one I can't say they'd be bad. Another thing to keep in mind is that in proper phase, mic'ing both the 15 and 10 on one of them probably rules, but that mostly happens in the studio. There are videos on youtube of them sounding great close mic'd on both speakers if you look around. Who knows what the blend really is.

your question is going to get a lot of response skewed toward the usual two answers for bass amplification here: match drivers or get a properly designed full range system. I'd lean toward the former especially for guitar.

EDIT: in the band mentioned above I just want to clarify that those amps were the guitarists' rigs. I tried them out with bass though. I used an old tube PA amp.
 
#19
will33 said:
I think your proto cab might find a following in power trio's, one guitar, bass and drums.
Click to expand...

If you're talking about the 12" guitar speaker + 15" woofer prototype, I've abandoned that format. It was neither fish nor fowl, so to speak, but it did show me what I was doing wrong.

Off topic, by chance, did you write to my e-mail address back in December? I thought you did, but then couldn't find it, so not sure if I imagined it.

will33 said:
A lot of us like playing in trios. It allows us to "stretch out" a bit on bass, playing point/counterpoint, harmonies/counter-melodies, or just "filling more space"/ playing more stuff.

Something weird happens though when the 1 guitarist takes a lead....it sounds "empty". With a tone that's set up to support the band rather than "drive" it....it doesn't matter how many notes we play, it still sounds empty. Part of that is due to not filling up sonic space. With the bass woofer/guitar driver combo, we can get that sonic space back/fill it up without the second guitar.
Click to expand...

So, are you saying that your guitarist could use a richer, fuller-sounding cab? If so, I have something in my garage that might be worth resurrecting so that he could give it a try. The main complaint from my beta testers was "too much low end", but this might be the place for something like that. It's not a bass cab, though.

will33 said:
Caveat #2: if you build your ideas around my little band, you will surely end up in the poor house. :p
Click to expand...

Ha! Well if that happens, would you guys sneak me in to one of your gigs so I don't have to pay the cover charge??
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back