I'm not gonna take three guitar players, some percussionists and at least 3 singers into the woods to prove you wrong, but I'm fairly sure it's not gonna happen. The bass player would be better off scatting a bass line ala Paul in "I Will".
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Campfire Acoustic Bass Guitar??
- Thread starter herbygardener
- Start date
I have a Michael Kelly 5-string that is surprisingly loud, given the standard body depth/size and low price. I love the feel and the sound of it, too. I have never played outdoors, but I have played it with two acoustics and percussion without an amp, and it did great. I was surprised, especially after reading all the threads on TB about this topic.
I think the key is the distance you are projecting to. If it is a relatively small circle, you're fine. If it's more than 12-14 feet, you won't be heard very well.
I think the key is the distance you are projecting to. If it is a relatively small circle, you're fine. If it's more than 12-14 feet, you won't be heard very well.
Hello bass lovin’ folks;
We’ve been talking about booking our multi family summer camping trip and it has gotten me thinking about campfire jams and my responsibility to provide some bass supportUsually just one other acoustic guitar and some vocals, prolly never more than a couple acoustic guitars, some hand percussion and a couple of folks who fancy themselves singers.
I’ve been doing some research and a common ‘complaint’ of many acoustic base guitars is the limited volume when not amped up. I don’t need to be out front, just heard…
Seems like Kala Ubass’ are kinda a hot thing, any feedback for my intended use?
I’m looking for opinions/options for a decent/inexpensive camping/beach gathering instrument. I will do my best to buy used locally.
As always, I appreciate any insight and assistance to help this ol’ dude get comfy in his new found Bassment existence
Cheers!
It galls me to say this (as I am normally against buying off-shore instruments) - but get a Luna. I was in the market for a decent ABG, but as I knew that it would be more of a camping / beach instrument, I didn't want to spend the money on something *nice*. Read some reviews and saw nothing but good things about these Chinese Luna basses. I ordered one on-line for less than $200 and it is quite nice - -much better than I had expected. If I cared more, I'd have my guy dress the frets, etc - but I really don't. It's perfect for sitting with folks at the beach and noodling - and if it get thrashed, the price makes it tolerable.
Oh, and I did check out the usual suspects - Dean, Kelly, Fender, etc at the local GC - they just weren't as good and were all more money. Go figure!
IME, One guitar in a room, you may be heard... Two guitars open air or around public noise, and other instruments... nope, never heard an ABG that can really keep up with that. I used to do some busking and would play higher in the neck, heavy pick, and it would barely work to fill out some sound but lower registers would drop out completely... battery powered speakers was my only solution... most of those don't handle the lower registers very well too, unless you drop some bucks on nicer ones...
This is simply wrong.
I jammed with this just last weekend at a friends place. Two steel string guitars, two vocals and a cajon. I had no problem being heard.
More info here:
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/mexican-guitarron.49544/page-3#post-10621305
Now we're getting closer to the truth. Although mine wasn't that expensive. Expensive enough that I wouldn't call it an ideal campfire bass, though.
IIRC the guitarron was ~$350, and the new neck and bridge about the same. So ~$700 total plus $150-$200 for a custom gig bag. This was back in '97.
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Well, I've done it, so I have something-evidence based, to some degree. I think a lot of people who say it can't be done -- and there are very many on TB -- haven't really tried it. First-hane experience is okay, but I get the impression a lot of people -- not you necessarily -- are just parroting stuff about which they know nothing. At least give it a try before opining. The projection issue is often overlooked
in these discussions.
To LowB-ing: So YOU"RE the guy. Great concept. About the only way to upgrade an acoustic bass guitar short of going to a quarter-sized upright or a Regal Bassoguitar or a Rigel Bass. How did you manage to mate the bolt-on neck to the guitarron body, and did you have to re-brace the guitarron to accommodate string tension?
I didn't do the actual work myself, I had Michael Dolan do it! I bought the guitarron in downtown L.A. and then sent it to him. The price I mentioned above was what he charged me, including both labour and materials. May have been closer to $400 than $350. Bear in mind that this was in '97.
The neck is not bolt on, it's set neck. Ebony board and graphite reinforcement rods too. Great work by Michael for a very reasonable price. The neck is much higher quality than the body. But, then the guitarron I got was a very basic instrument. Didn't want to buy a real expensive one just to slaughter it in an experiment.
... not to mention I wasn't exactly swimming in cash back in my youth.
There is no re-bracing of the top. It's been bulging quite a bit for many years though. I currently have D'addario XL .145, .105, .080, .060, .045 on it.
I have no association with this seller and have never played one of these basses, but I saw this in the classifieds earlier. It has a built in amp.
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/fernandes-nomad-travel-bass.1034482/
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/fernandes-nomad-travel-bass.1034482/
This is simply wrong.
I jammed with this just last weekend at a friends place. Two steel string guitars, two vocals and a cajon. I had no problem being heard.
More info here:
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/mexican-guitarron.49544/page-3#post-10621305
Now we're getting closer to the truth. Although mine wasn't that expensive. Expensive enough that I wouldn't call it an ideal campfire bass, though.
IIRC the guitarron was ~$350, and the new neck and bridge about the same. So ~$700 total plus $150-$200 for a custom gig bag. This was back in '97.
I did think of a guitarron after making the initial post. A substantially bigger body like that can make enough volume at bass frequencies to be heard. I spoke in emphatic terms to make the point to the OP. He's not going to find a cheap instrument to take camping that will keep up with multiple guitars and percussion.
I have no association with this seller and have never played one of these basses, but I saw this in the classifieds earlier. It has a built in amp.
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/fernandes-nomad-travel-bass.1034482/
I have one of these and it works quite nicely. It has enough volume to play with a banjo, couple of guitars, mandolin, etc. It isn't the greatest sound, but it works. Also, the design lets you sit comfortably in a lawn chair near the fire to play. The body is small enough to sit comfortably on your lap. It also looks funkey enough that everyone that see's it will want to try it out.
My experience with the ABG, is limited, but it seems like they have enough volume, but it's focused straight ahead of the body/sound hole. I go to bluegrass fests, and there have been a couple of people playing them on un-amplified stages. You can hear the bass when you're directly in front, but around the campfire, only a couple of people will hear it, and the bass player may not be one of them!
+1
There are tons of people that just repeat the "classic lines". Try it for yourself, come back, and tell everyone about it; that is SO much more helpful than everyone saying "ABGs never hold up with two acoustic six-strings".
If you need proof that this is what people on here are doing, put up a thread stating "I'm thinking about buying a 4x10 and a 1x15 cab to use together in my rig".
Baloney! It's true an acoustic bass guitar can't be heard over a power trio playing Marshall's, but in a small group of acoustics, playing for ourselves, not trying to project to an audience, an acoustic bass guitar will do just fine. I've played my Martin BM with acoustic groups a lot and I never have trouble providing a useful bottom to the sound. With no keys and no kick drum, nobody is stepping on your aural space. So, you can be heard.
There are many acoustic bass guitars available which cost less than my Martin (which is not a high end Martin, ~$1000). Try a bunch before you buy.
Raf
There are many acoustic bass guitars available which cost less than my Martin (which is not a high end Martin, ~$1000). Try a bunch before you buy.
Raf
Yes, you even have a pic of a guitarron in your post. I was just yanking your chain a bit 'cause of your slightly hyberbolic statement ('not a single one in the world').
I agree with GretschWretch that the "ABGs don't work" blanket statement get's repeated like a mantra and reality is not quite that simple. There's the Earnie Ball Earthwood (expensive), the Rigel (expensive) and the the possibility of modding a guitarron (not cheap, but way more cost effective than the other two if you find the right luthier to do it).
That's not a lot of options, but vastly better than no options.
Actually, there are a few more options in the expensive category: The Linden ABG for example.
Man, I love how passionate bass players can be
Tonnes of great ideas, giving me loads of research to do
I think ultimately; I will probably try to play as many inexpensive basses as I can lay my hands on between now and then (couple months) and then likely try to rent one and see how it actually works for my situation.
After that I'll probably have enough personal info to decide on a purchase or not.
Thanks for chiming in everyone!
Cheers!
But how KOOL would it be to bust out that guitarron tho...
Tonnes of great ideas, giving me loads of research to do
I think ultimately; I will probably try to play as many inexpensive basses as I can lay my hands on between now and then (couple months) and then likely try to rent one and see how it actually works for my situation.
After that I'll probably have enough personal info to decide on a purchase or not.
Thanks for chiming in everyone!
Cheers!
But how KOOL would it be to bust out that guitarron tho...
I had a fretless Tacoma Thunderchief that could hold up fine with 2 guitars, vocals, and a cocktail drum. I had a higher action, flats and a very strong finger style attack or a felt pick. Most cheap ABGs are going to be tough to make audible in a camp fire situation but it can be done. I think a battery powered amp is a cheaper and better option though.
On this particular thread, I think the two things than most need to be kept in mind are "portability' and "projection." OP's low-frequency sound generator is going to have to be schlepped for some
distance into the wild, and that is going to rule out a lot of options due to size/weight considerations. And we must keep in mind that low frequencies throw a long sound wave that won't fully
develop until several feet from the source. F sound-holes throw a cloud-like broad dispersal pattern that spreads. A round or oval sound-hole pattern is more directional -- I read an opinion by Rick Turner that the oval sound-hole was the *most* directional -- like the beam of a floodlight; you either hear it or you don't, depending on where you are situated relative to the source.
If I have a gig where an acoustic instrument is appropriate but a vertical bass is not, and I am playing seated, a quarter-size upright is my go-to bass. Standing, I will use an original Eko BA-4 or,
if I'm really secure about the venue, my first-generation Harry Fleishman Compact Bass. But for a picnic or beach party, it's going to be a Dean.
distance into the wild, and that is going to rule out a lot of options due to size/weight considerations. And we must keep in mind that low frequencies throw a long sound wave that won't fully
develop until several feet from the source. F sound-holes throw a cloud-like broad dispersal pattern that spreads. A round or oval sound-hole pattern is more directional -- I read an opinion by Rick Turner that the oval sound-hole was the *most* directional -- like the beam of a floodlight; you either hear it or you don't, depending on where you are situated relative to the source.
If I have a gig where an acoustic instrument is appropriate but a vertical bass is not, and I am playing seated, a quarter-size upright is my go-to bass. Standing, I will use an original Eko BA-4 or,
if I'm really secure about the venue, my first-generation Harry Fleishman Compact Bass. But for a picnic or beach party, it's going to be a Dean.
I personally gave up on the idea of keeping up with guitars using an ABG (although some really large and pricey ABG could do the job) and learned to play guitar for those acoustic jam occasions.
This is not correct, and has been discussed at great length in various amp/speaker threads. The reason the sound changes as you move away from the instrument is because of different dispersion in different frequency ranges and also because of phase cancellation from nearby surfaces such as walls.
