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Can't find the thread about line out from output transformer...please help

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by two fingers, Dec 26, 2016.


  1. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    There is a recent thread floating around here somewhere in amps. OP asked for a list of amps that use a tap from the output transformer as the line for the XLR out to the board. A link would be great. I have searched using several different queries with no luck. Thanks!
     
  2. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    This one touches on it but doesn't sound like the one you want. Running an amp into another one?

    The best way to search is with google. Include "site:talkbass.com topic". For example site:talkbass.com output tap line out
     
  3. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Thanks for replying.

    Nah. There was a thread recently just trying to narrow down the list of tube amps that use a tap off of the output transformer (rather than just the preamp) for the XLR out. I know the Ashdown LB30 does and (if I recall correctly) the new Ampeg PF-50 and PF-20 so. But I'm trying to figure out which others do. The scuttle is that they allow you to get that power tube "sag" and other subtle features in the tone you send to the front of house system in a live show. I have gotten great feedback from sound guys when using my LB30 but I'm looking for a stronger amp to revamp my main stage rig.
     
  4. FronTowardEnemy

    FronTowardEnemy It is better to go unnoticed, than to suck

    Sep 19, 2006
    Plainfield Illinois
    The Fender Bassman 100T take the DI off the OT tap.
     
    two fingers likes this.
  5. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    There are a few Fender amps that do this.
     
    two fingers likes this.
  6. LiquidMidnight

    LiquidMidnight

    Dec 25, 2000
    The 400 series Mesas do as well.

    Of course, if an amp doesn't take its DI signal from the OT, you can always run a speaker-level DI, such as a Radial JDI or a Palmer.
     
    two fingers likes this.
  7. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Yep. That's what I do. The drawback is you can't do this without a cab (or a load box provided the amp is 100w or less), but I always use a cab anyway. I use a Countryman Type 85 for it, but any DI that does speaker level will work.
     
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  8. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Is there a phrase I should look for in the manufacture Web site that says this better than I saying it? Because even the amps I know do have this feature don't seem to list it in the description of the amp....not that I can find anyway.
     
  9. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    If this is an important feature to you, your best bet us to contact the manufacturer, that way you get the information directly from the source.
     
    two fingers likes this.
  10. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Maybe I'm crazy. I thought there was a thread just the other day about this very subject.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  11. popgadget

    popgadget Commercial User

    Sep 4, 2005
    Eastern, PA USA
    Authorized Greenboy Designs Builder, Scabbey Road
    And everything you read on the internet is correct.............
     
    agedhorse likes this.
  12. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    It isn't just a matter of having a line out on the output, it's how it is accomplished. Some designs use a resistive divider, others use a transformer, etc. The signal quality can vary depending on the design.

    If an amp doesn't offer this feature, there are external loadbox devices that connect to the output and provide a line out. Check out the Torpedo Studio and Live units: Loadbox For Guitar And Bass | Two Notes Audio Engineering. There are other similar products.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  13. spiritbass

    spiritbass Supporting Member

    Jun 9, 2004
    Ashland, MO
    I don't recall seeing the thread. Kevin Shaw's B-150 has an output tapped off of the OT. An unbalance 1/4" is standard, but for an upcharge, he will install a Jensen transformer.
     
  14. coreyfyfe

    coreyfyfe Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2007
    boston, ma
    I have a countryman type 85 that I use for this as well. Honestly not as much a fan as I thought I'd be when I first got it. The speaker-out signal has all of the amp signal but since you're EQing with the speaker included what you're getting at the FOH isn't the same thing anyways so unless you've got an FOH guy working with you to dial up the EQ the signal how you want it it's not really much better than going a DI out front.

    I think if the OT output had some kind of speaker sim or you could take the time to really EQ the FOH signal that's one thing. Not always the case for me.
     
  15. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    This is a little bit different in that it involves a differential input, and the balancing of impedances without generating an inverting signal, rather than a true FLOATING balanced output. The floating is where the galvanic isolation occurs.
     
  16. Spidey2112

    Spidey2112

    Aug 3, 2016
    Translator? Is there a translator in the house? I'm thinking the end result of this thread is way less complicated than the explanation... my eyes hurt.
     
  17. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I never use a DI signal without some sort of speaker sim or pedal with a built in speaker sim in front of it. But even if you don't, I still think it sounds much richer and more textured to use a speaker level DI with a tube amp. If only I could count on the sound tech not to put in all those annoying frequencies without me having to resort to pedals :D
     
  18. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Many tube amps that have a line out only go through the preamp for that signal. So you don't get the (perceived) "benefit" of the affect that power tunes have on one's tone. My Ashdown LB-30, however, and several other amps use a tap off of the output transformer as the line out. So when you plug and XLR cable into the amp to send the signal to the board, you are sending the tone based on the full tube compliment to the board. If, like me, you are willing to cooperate with the sound guy regarding EQ, this can warm your tone out front without having to use one of the many (albeit awesome) outboard gadgets to accomplish the same goals.
     
  19. JJR58

    JJR58 Dirty Bird Supporting Member

    Dec 2, 2010
    Brooklyn, NY.

    Jimmy, You don't need a speaker load to do this with the PF 50? correct?
     

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