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Cant hear my Bass quad onstage??

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by rob534532, Aug 6, 2012.


  1. rob534532

    rob534532

    Aug 6, 2012
    I Always ran a 1x15(300w) and 4x10(300w) GK box together...recently downgraded to a 4x10 Aguilar (700w) quad as it was easier to fit in the car.

    Problem i have now is, i cant hear myself as the quad that used to sit on the 15inch box is now sitting on the floor.
    When i prop up the quad onto a milk crate or stand, it loses its bottom end as its not sitting on the ground.

    Any suggestions? whats the best way to prop up a quad so its closer to my ears but doesnt lose bottom end ?

    cheers guys:meh:
     
  2. seamonkey

    seamonkey

    Aug 6, 2004
    You're not loosing bottom end.
    There is just more mids and highs in your mix you're hearing.
    Use EQ to turn down the mids and highs to your ear tastes
     
  3. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    Get away from the cab so you're in the wash. Small rooms/stages my cab is sometimes across the drum kit from my normal hi hat position. That extra 5 or 6 feet makes a huge difference.

    Also... Getba wireless, get out front and make that judgement from out in the room. In some rooms, what sounds middly and ganky up close sounds defined but cutting out front... Particularly with 4x10's. Probably my least fav driver arrangement.
     
  4. testing1two

    testing1two Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    Southern California
    Tilt it back maybe? All that matters is the drivers are aimed towards your ears not your ankles.
     
  5. testing1two

    testing1two Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    Southern California
    He really is losing some bottom end by raising the cab in two ways: first, if a cab is sitting on the ground/stage, etc. it is acoustically half-space loaded which means the ground/stage acts as a baffle that directs/reflects low frequency energy that otherwise would be omnidirectional. Raising the cab up off the ground reduces the effect of the baffle causing diffraction loss (a fancy way of saying the low end is reduced).

    Second, the ground/stage not only acts as a baffle to reflect the speaker cabinet's energy but it's also acoustically coupled making it a resonant sound transmitter. Raising the cab up acoustically decouples the cabinet from the stage thus reducing or eliminating the stage's resonant frequencies.

    So yes, there is a reduction in low end when you raise the cab. However, this is usually a good thing because the low end that comes from half space loading and coupling with the stage is unpredictable and indistinct. In fact it usually does more harm than good, adversely affecting clarity and tonal balance.
     
  6. seamonkey

    seamonkey

    Aug 6, 2004
    The floor is a boundary.
    A milk crate is not tall enough to effect the 1/4 wavelength boundary effect

    I don't understand why musicians are so adverse to adjusting their EQ. It's a simple fix.
     
  7. seanm

    seanm I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize! Supporting Member

    Feb 19, 2004
    Ottawa, Canada
    +1 Didn't Bill Fitzmaurice say that the cab had to be 2 meters off the floor too lose the coupling effect. Hopefully, he can chime in here.
     
  8. testing1two

    testing1two Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    Southern California
    The boundary effect is not a yes or no proposition. When you raise a cab less than 1/4 wavelength you may not eliminate the effect but you reduce it and that reduction is audible. I don't think there was any question about the common sense approach of adjusting EQ to compensate for the placement of your cab. I was merely pointing out that raising the cab does in fact effect reduce some low frequency content.

    If you want to keep more of the boundary effect intact then tilt the cab back instead of raising it. If you want to raise the cab then adjust the EQ to compensate. Piece of cake right?
     
  9. seanm

    seanm I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize! Supporting Member

    Feb 19, 2004
    Ottawa, Canada
    That could be.

    I used to play in a country band that was lower volume. If I knew the venue, I would only bring my 1x12 and put it on a chair. A chair is about 1 1/2 feet off the ground? I noticed no difference between the 1x12 on a chair and two 1x12s in terms of low end.

    I would never use a 1x12 with the rock band.
     
  10. rob534532

    rob534532

    Aug 6, 2012
    Thanks for the tips guys....i think we have found that raising the 4x10 off the ground does take from the bottom end, of course you can increase the LOW on eq, but it wont give the same low end as if the cab was sitting on the ground.
    I thought maybe sitting the cab on a wooden stool rather than a plastic crate would somehow carry the low end through, but that didnt work either.
    I mean i guess its the same reason why you would put a 15 box under a 4x10 box, and not the other way around, right?
     
  11. rob534532

    rob534532

    Aug 6, 2012
    i just wanted to add, the other reason why i got rid of the 15 was because i couldnt get the Mud out of the mix, regardless of how i eq'd it, i found running a 4x10 definatley got rid of the muddy mids, but i lost that natural bottom end, that you just cant get out of a 4x10...bugger
     
  12. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    alpha-music.com
    time for a second matching 4x10!

    (or ditch the first one too, get two 2x10s and stack them vertically; balance the head on top and you have the official TalkBass "T-bone" rig.
     
  13. TimmyP

    TimmyP

    Nov 4, 2003
    Indianapolis, IN
    Tilt it back, adjust EQ to taste, let the PA do the work of delivering you to the audience.
     

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