Can't hear my drummer's kick drum...

[phayes1007]

Idk if it's because of his playing/his kit/room acoustics, but I can't hear the bass drum... even with no one else playing I can barely hear the kick and it doesn't seem to make a huge difference where I'm standing in relation to him. It's nearly impossible to lock into a groove with him when all I'm hearing
is cymbals and snare. He hits very hard, but honestly, he could be omitting half of his kicks/not even hitting them on time and I wouldn't be able to tell. This isn't just happening at shows, it's at every rehearsal too.

Anyone else have this problem/What did you do about it? Would ear plugs help?

 

[two fingers]

Put some in your monitor. If you EQ it right it won't even stress the speaker.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

ear plugs would help, but his kick drum must suck, or tuned poorly

 

[moody]

Can you get somewhere where you can see his kick drum foot?

Earplugs will help. Good tuning will help.

Don't expect the kick drum to be extreme from an acoustic kit. Modern recorded music sounds very different to live.

Maybe get him to play the rest of the kit softer?

 

[phayes1007]

Can you get somewhere where you can see his kick drum foot?

Earplugs will help. Good tuning will help.

Don't expect the kick drum to be extreme from an acoustic kit. Modern recorded music sounds very different to live.

Maybe get him to play the rest of the kit softer?

Not really, I'm usually always standing in front of him. I have tried that approach before though, but my vision is not great and a lot of the songs we play aren't slow enough... trying to watch/focus on something that starts and ends that quickly while listen and play at the same time just gives me a headache.

And I wish we had monitors... :/ Hoping for them one day, but I don't expect that happening any time soon. Gotta make do with the equipment we currently have

 

[hdracer]

I like to rely on the snare or hat more than the kick unless I can see the drummers foot on the kick out of the corner of my eye.
And his drum must suck...

 

[jmverdugo]

Man that has got to suck, or not, I mean if you can't hear it probably nobody else can so you all probably sound really tight . He has to be doing something wrong.

 

[fourstringdrums]

Well as a drummer myself I have to say "Maybe you're too loud"

 

[Mattster]

Listen to the high hat?

 

[4Mal]

Maybe he needs to kick harder ? Maybe the rest of the band is too loud ? Ypu mention "if we had monitors..." If you're serious, you have monitors or in ears, period dot...

 

[Growlmonkee]

Pretty sure my sound engineer spends more time on our drum mix in the monitors than on anything else, and if there's a problem, it's usually drums in the monitors. For live stuff it's critical, and without monitors, some of what he's doing is lost in the mix, what you have is not uncommon for me, without monitors you might have to adjust to snare, and hat, as stated above, a good monitor mix is priceless.

 

[254 stringer]

Is his bass drum stuffed full of bed sheets and dirty laundry? I find it easier to hear the bass drum when there is little or no muffling but then they have to know how to tune drums to pull that off.

 

[s0c9]

Pretty sure my sound engineer spends more time on our drum mix in the monitors than on anything else, and if there's a problem, it's usually drums in the monitors. For live stuff it's critical, and without monitors, some of what he's doing is lost in the mix, what you have is not uncommon for me, without monitors you might have to adjust to snare, and hat, as stated above, a good monitor mix is priceless.

Interesting, because before I went IEM's, I have never had (or being asked to put) acoustic drums in any stage wedge/monitor mix except maybe on a festival stage.
Occasionally bass, but again, only on LARGE stages.
I would never put drums into the average club/bar stage monitors - mostly vox, judicious use of acoustic guitar, maybe a little bass into the wedge on the opposite side of stage from bass. Depends on how many mixes I was running.
Obviously, YMMV.

But, to the OP - if you can't hear the kick on stage, the band is too freakin' loud and needs some stage volume management.

 

[Growlmonkee]

We use most of the drum mix in our monitors, to clarify a bit, I didn't mean to imply that I can't hear them, I guess what I meant was the right amount in the monitors is sometimes the most difficult part of the monitor mix to level correctly, and we drive our engineer crazy sometimes, nit-picking about what we hear, or don't hear, and the word "drum" comes up a lot. it's a good thing he is an even tempered guy, he just says "ok", and adjusts lvls till we stop complaining. No budget for IEM's , but we're working on it, I can't wait till.

 

[buldog5151bass]

One trick I use when I am on stage and have a tough time hearing the kick drum. I usually stand on the ride cymbal side. If necessary, I can put my left foot against the drum peg, so I can feel it. Once I know I am locked in I step away, but it is a fast fix. Try it.

 

[Chris 'Wighat' Jordan]

I wouldn't count on ever being able to hear the kick on stage without it in the monitors.

 

[s0c9]

No budget for IEM's , but we're working on it, I can't wait till.

We went totally IEM about 18 months ago - after getting an X32 Producer.. . Producer because we mix from stage about 70% of our gigs (house PA the rest) and BL (who owns PA) wanted to be able to grab faders.
We use our idevices/Androids to control our own IEM mixes, and have someone FOH "pushing faders".
Totally wireless in (except drums/pedal-steel) and wireless out!
Right now it's mono mixes (going stereo and buying an S16), and we have PSM200's and Senn G3's in the same rack as X32.
We all have our own ears (except singer who uses the stock E215's).
DSP and amps are in 2nd rack, that gets left at home for house provided PA gigs.

For House PA's we take their split mapped to our input channels.
It's basically plug and play... when we use our mics/DI's - it literally is.. Power up and go.
When we use house mics, etc. there's some small adjustments for gain, and maybe EQ, but that's it.

It's seriously worth considering when you are talking about saving your hearing!

 

[cazclocker]

Good answers all, but here's the real solution. Take TWO bass rigs to every gig. Your main rig for your sound, and a small combo for the kick. Mic the kick with an SM57 into an ART TubePAC, into your combo amp. Use an amp stand to elevate the combo right behind your head. Issue resolved.

 

[Growlmonkee]

It's not just my hearing, the amount of time spent setting up is sometimes ridiculous, not having any monitors, like the OP, is out of the question, after you are "spoiled" with good mixes every show, however what he's doing is done every day, successfully, but there are concessions to be made to make it work.

 

[silky smoove]

How is his bass drum tuned? I find when they're tuned too high they get lost in the mix. As a drummer myself, I'm a big fan of JAW tuning on the bass drum. For you non-drummers that means "just above wrinkle." Essentially you evenly finger tighten all of your lugs, and then give them just a hair more tension. Very deep body and a nice attack from the beater. It also gets the kick lower than the primary bass guitar frequencies, which should make it easier to hear.