Double Bass Can't hear myself in large jams

[bobsax]

I've had a hearing problem lately when playing with a large group of strings.
When I first started I marked the bass and just eyeballed the notes but the last year or so I've been working on not looking at my left hand.
I've gotten pretty good at playing "blind" but when I'm doing an acoustic jam with 3 or more guitars , banjos and mandolins I can't hear myself.
Folks that are listening say they hear me fine.
Thank God for open strings.!

Anybody have this problem?

 

[Jeremy Darrow]

This is a common situation, we bass players are frequently in the worst spot to hear out own instruments. Work on scales, at least in half and first position, so that you have a sense of where the notes are with having to look.

 

[bobsax]

thanks Jeremy
I usually do play in the first two positions and it does help but it would be nice to hear the notes rather then just trust/feel them in tune.
When I feel them in tune I think they my not be 100%, especially if it's the D string E or above and a guitar may be playing the same note.

I have a theory that bass players who play with piano players don't need to be as accurate due to the fact that a piano note is really 3 slightly out of tune notes.

It seems like raising the bass up so it's closer to your ears helps a little. At least so that it's easier to lean down and stick my ear right on the bass.

Has anybody ever heard of somebody using a device like a stethoscope to physically connect their ears to the bass?

 

[jeepnstein]

Has anybody ever heard of somebody using a device like a stethoscope to physically connect their ears to the bass?

A spot monitor or in-ear monitors are about your only hope. I do have to say that I've never played a jam session so loud that I couldn't hear myself where an amp or PA wasn't to blame. I'm searching for a spot monitor myself now so I can get rid of the in-ears.

 

[cultrvultr]

Where you stand makes a big difference. A loud banjo or hard strumming guitarist right next to you can make it hard to hear yourself. Standing waves and boomy areas of the room can also affect your ability to hear your pitch. It can be worth moving around the circle a bit until you find a better spot.

 

[neddyrow]

I sometimes use my ampeg micro amp when I'm practicing with my band. When I'm really trying to work something out it helps. I never crank it. Just a little support. Our banjo player has a Sullivan and that thing is loud as all get out. I know it's taboo sometimes to use an amp but you are the rhythm section keeping time. I get annoyed sometimes when there is a big jam and some of the lesser skilled musicians speed up or slow down because they can't hear me. I hope that doesn't sound like I think I'm better than others, it's just that I spent lots of time on keeping the tempo steady. It's our thing. Hope that helps.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

I hope that doesn't sound like I think I'm better than others, it's just that I spent lots of time on keeping the tempo steady. It's our thing.

It should be EVERYBODY'S thing. In any other form of music, playing in time is a basic requirement - only in bluegrass is it considered bad form to call somebody for rushing...

 

[sondrelj]

Choose your place in te room carefully. Bass travels far, and may reverberate back to you. In my experience, moving a few meters can make it much easier to hear oneself. If you're outside, try to get away from the center of the ring, and stand in the outskirts of the jam. Bluegrass instruments tend to be directed, and making sure you stand behind or beside , say, banjo-players helps.

Other than that, you can raise your action to get more volume out of the instrument, and finally. with practice, it gets easier to distinguish between the different sounds, and you can better isolate yourself. Chances are that loud-playing banjo-players don't hear themselves either (when you play anjo, you don't realize yourself that you're plaing loud, honestly. They have the same problem that we have). Thus, they play as loud as possible because they want to hear themselves.

My band has a constant "loudness-war", where the dobro and the banjo is in the lead, I'm third, the gitarplayer has given up competing, and the mandolin-player is saving up for a new instrument.

 

[bobsax]

Thanks sondrelj
That's some real good advice.

I've been experimenting with moving around and there are definitely good and bad places to stand.
The last jam we moved from the big wood dance floor area to the dinning area with carpet and lower ceiling and the sound was great.

I wonder if bringing a one person carpet or rug for the bass player would help in live rooms?

btw sondrelj
Our guitar player is from Sweden and we were thinking of doing a tour there next Summer.
How is the acoustic bluegrass new grass scene in the North Country?

bob

 

[turf3]

Bob,

You may be more advanced than me in which case disregard. But I have found that when I feel that "I can't hear myself" it's not really that I can't hear myself, it's that I'm not listening the right way. It's hard to explain, but I feel that I can listen to what's happening right near me, and then I often can't hear the bass. But if I listen to what's happening out in the room (and I don't know how to explain what this means), I can hear the bass. It sounds weird, I know, since my ears are still located at the sides of my head. I have a theory that what's happening is that when I feel I am unable to hear myself I am focusing and listening for higher frequency sounds, which can easily be obscured by higher-pitched instruments nearby (and a double bass doesn't have that much high frequency content anyway) - and that what I perceive as "listening to the room" is actually a focusing and attention to the low fundamental frequencies made by the bass, that are non directional and are not obscured by loud high pitched instruments nearby. Anyway, that is my theory on what is happening.

Judging from your alias, you might also be a sax player? I am also. Sax players have a special challenge in learning to listen differently, because when you play saxophone you have a direct connection from the mouthpiece to the skull through the upper teeth, so you always have an "in-head" monitor built in.

So, give a try to thinking "I am going to listen to what it sounds like out in the room", and you may find the bass becomes apparent to you in ways it wasn't before.

 

[sondrelj]

Thanks sondrelj
That's some real good advice.

I've been experimenting with moving around and there are definitely good and bad places to stand.
The last jam we moved from the big wood dance floor area to the dinning area with carpet and lower ceiling and the sound was great.

I wonder if bringing a one person carpet or rug for the bass player would help in live rooms?

btw sondrelj
Our guitar player is from Sweden and we were thinking of doing a tour there next Summer.
How is the acoustic bluegrass new grass scene in the North Country?

bob

I don't know if the small carpet will do anything. You need a larger piece of cloth to dampen the acoustics of the room. What you may want to do is to use the spike on your end pin. That changes the sound quite a bit (not to mention the floor).

The scene up here is good, there are many local bands, and we have bands over every summer, usually paid for by the big country festivals. But there is also the European Bluegrass music association, which can be helpful in organizing a tour. We had Della Mae over earlier this month, and last summer we had a band from New England called Four Bridges, who came to seek their roots.

I have an old spotify-playlist with European bluegrass, if you should be interested. Czeck, Norwegian, Swedish and even Icelandic. Many of the songs are translated covers, others are originals. Among the weirder items is a version of Dolly Parton's Train in 9/8:

 

[sondrelj]

I don't know if the small carpet will do anything. You need a larger piece of cloth to dampen the acoustics of the room. What you may want to do is to use the spike on your end pin. That changes the sound quite a bit (not to mention the floor).

The scene up here is good, there are many local bands, and we have bands over every summer, usually paid for by the big country festivals. But there is also the European Bluegrass music association, which can be helpful in organizing a tour. We had Della Mae over earlier this month, and last summer we had a band from New England called Four Bridges, who came to seek their roots.

 

[bobsax]

I have an old spotify-playlist with European bluegrass, if you should be interested. Czeck, Norwegian, Swedish and even Icelandic. Many of the songs are translated covers, others are originals. Among the weirder items is a version of Dolly Parton's Train in 9/8:

Thank you Sondrelj
I didn't know there was a European Bluegrass Society. I'll check them out.
I'm not sure what a spottily playlist is but I'd like to check it out if you have a link.
Thanks again
bob

 

[sondrelj]

Thank you Sondrelj
I didn't know there was a European Bluegrass Society. I'll check them out.
I'm not sure what a spottily playlist is but I'd like to check it out if you have a link.
Thanks again
bob

Spotify is a music streaming service, which is what any people use over here. For a monthly fee you get access to a vast library of music, sort of like netflix for music. if you click the link, you can check it out. I hope the link works this time.

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The biggest festival in Europe finished this weekend, and bands from Sweden and Norway took first and second place in the award for best band/act.

 

[misterbadger]

Perhaps playing with more force, keeping awareness of transmitting elbow and shoulder power to the note, will help. I notice that not only am I louder but also that the notes have more pop and presence when I'm attentive to playing like this.

 

[Bass Doc]

I have often wondered why there isn't a small f hole cut into the bass at the shoulder facing up so we can hear too! I know it would cause some volume loss to audience, but boy would it be worth it. Often thought of buying an old cheap Chinese bass and trying it out myself with a scroll saw. Anyone ever seen anything like this done? Could be a great way to ruin a bass though...

 

[sondrelj]

It has been done with acoustic bass guitars:Invalid Link Removed

 

[Jake deVilliers]

I have often wondered why there isn't a small f hole cut into the bass at the shoulder facing up so we can hear too! I know it would cause some volume loss to audience, but boy would it be worth it. Often thought of buying an old cheap Chinese bass and trying it out myself with a scroll saw. Anyone ever seen anything like this done? Could be a great way to ruin a bass though...

It doesn't need to be f-shaped, a simple round hole will do.

James Condino has a bass with a sound port - use the Search for details.

 

[bobsax]

Thanks Jake
You can see the port here. He did a real nice job on it.
http://condino.com/double-bass/

 

[Bass Doc]

Thanks for the link. That sound hole is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Does anyone know if it really helps or is just a gimmick? I'm ready to take a skil saw to my upright! ;-)