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Can't learn by ear, switch to drums?

ThatLowEnd

ThatLowEnd

Dirt, Trucks, BBQ, Whiskey
Supporting Member
Apr 14, 2012
1,486
1,048
Down In The Delta
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Has been/Never was
#1
So I have been playing guitar and bass for almost 15 years. I can play just about anything you throw my way, as long as there are tabs. This is where my problem has always been, learning by ear. My technique is fine, timing great, awreness of how music is written (popular progressions, correct scales, etc) great.

I am starting to think that maybe, if I want to be a studio musician, a melodic instrument isn't going to get me to that level. This is where switching to drums comes in.

I have always been tempted by drums, and reselling my bass gear could easily net me a great electronic and acoustic kit, so money would not be an issue.

Have you experienced my situation/frustration in the past? Is 28 to old to start an instrument with the hopes of becoming semi-professional?

Thanks TB
 
#3
ear requires training. If you have not done ear training exercises before then there is your problem. I don't believe anyone is tone-deaf, you can improve your ear the same way you can improve sight reading, muscle memory...etc.

And also you say you read tabs, do you read standard music notation? Reading notation is important in being a studio musician as well. Most studio musicians have worked on their reading and ear training for many years and that is why they are good at what they do.
I personally don't think that switching to drums will solve the problem because drums itself presents many challenges and you need to be able to hear chord changes too (harmonic rhythm). Being a studio drummer is probably even harder than becoming a studio bassist.

I think 28 is too old to start a new instrument from scratch (if you have a job, have to pay the bills...etc) but its not too old to work on your ear training and your sight reading skills (standard music notation).
 
#4
I may be in the minority (I doubt it though), but playing by ear is overrated unless you are doing jazz. If you like the bass, keep playing the bass. Most bands love a bass player that is reliable, polite, and can keep a groove (IMO).

If you are looking for a reason to play the drums, go for it. Learning another instrument is pretty much always beneficial. But don't sell your basses.
 
#5
I hope this isn't too harsh, but if you're 28 and not working steadily already, the odds of becoming a professional studio musician are not in your favor. Whether its on bass or drums, you should be focusing on getting live gigs, not studio work. Especially in the L.A. area, studio gigs come after you have a reputation as a live player.
 
#6
What daily ear-training exercises has your teacher assigned you to improve this essential skill? Perhaps the collective wisdom of TalkBass can critique your methodology and give some suggestions how you can focus your practice time.

Take it from me: relative pitch is a skill that absolutely 100% can be improved with practice. For me the missing piece was singing every day (if you are a commuter then the car is a great place) until I learned to match the pitch of my voice to what I was hearing on the radio.

ps By all means buy an inexpensive drumkit and learn to play, you will never regret it, but keep your bass too. In fact learning multiple instruments can only help you musicianship: learning a "fretless" instrument like upright bass or trombone is marvelous ear training. :)
 
#8
beggar98 said:
I hope this isn't too harsh, but if you're 28 and not working steadily already, the odds of becoming a professional studio musician are not in your favor. Whether its on bass or drums, you should be focusing on getting live gigs, not studio work. Especially in the L.A. area, studio gigs come after you have a reputation as a live player.
Click to expand...

Yep.

However, all is not lost... Your resume screams: Record Producer! :eek:
 
#9
I appreciate all the comments/critiques positive and negative. I would like to mention that I do have a daytime career, something that I am good at and pays the bills etc.

My focus on doing studio work stems from wanting to have a little bit of extra income, while playing music which I love (studio work seems to be the only paying gig around these days). I do have a leg up in that a great friend of mine is a studio drummer and the understudy of a well known studio drummer in the LA area that plays with BIG artists. They both have said that they are going to get me into playing bass with acts I could never just walk into.

In fact my first audition is coming up in 2 weeks and that is what prompted this mental breakdown. I am a self taught musician and feel that I have reached a ceiling in my ability to get better.

Also, I do play live and do it quite often. I usually get compliments from other bands/fans on my tone etc. so I know I am atleast compitant. Just the ears....
 
#10
Jazzkuma said:
ear requires training. If you have not done ear training exercises before then there is your problem. I don't believe anyone is tone-deaf, you can improve your ear the same way you can improve sight reading, muscle memory...etc.

And also you say you read tabs, do you read standard music notation? Reading notation is important in being a studio musician as well. Most studio musicians have worked on their reading and ear training for many years and that is why they are good at what they do.
I personally don't think that switching to drums will solve the problem because drums itself presents many challenges and you need to be able to hear chord changes too (harmonic rhythm). Being a studio drummer is probably even harder than becoming a studio bassist.

I think 28 is too old to start a new instrument from scratch (if you have a job, have to pay the bills...etc) but its not too old to work on your ear training and your sight reading skills (standard music notation).
Click to expand...

+1
Totally agree
 
#11
I traded one of my basses for a drum set about a month ago, and have been playing them like crazy! Funky jam sessions with a bass playing buddy. I still have, and play, bass regularly, but I do very much enjoy playing drums!

I say give it a try, maybe it was the path you were supposed to take all along.

Nick.
 
#12
So. You have 2 weeks to prepare for this audition. What is your plan in that time?

Surely there must be a good teacher in the LA area (doesn't even have to be a bass teacher) you can take a couple of private lessons in that time? Being self-taught is admirable but sometimes it's OK to ask for help. Certainly don't quit the instrument over this! A good teacher will give you tools and encouragement to work through the roadblock.
 
#13
Mushroo said:
So. You have 2 weeks to prepare for this audition. What is your plan in that time?

Surely there must be a good teacher in the LA area (doesn't even have to be a bass teacher) you can take a couple of private lessons in that time? Being self-taught is admirable but sometimes it's OK to ask for help. Certainly don't quit the instrument over this! A good teacher will give you tools and encouragement to work through the roadblock.
Click to expand...

I take great comfort in this. I guess my plan of attack was to quit bass, dissappear for about a year, and re-emerge as a drummer :hiding:. In all seriousness, lessons seem like a great way to remedy this.
 
#15
Here is a specific ear-training tip from someone who used to consider himself "tone deaf."

A lot of people try to learn by putting on the favorite CD, listening to a few seconds, hitting pause, trying to figure it out on the bass, hitting rewind until you've got it, then learn the next phrase, etc. but I always found that incredibly difficult.

So what I learned to do is take the recording completely out of the equation (at least as an ear training exercise, obviously not when you have to actually learn a tune).

Instead what I forced myself to do was play songs completely from memory, without listening to the song. I started with incredibly easy songs that I had sung and listened to thousands (if not millions of times): Happy Birthday was my first, then I learned the Star Spangled Banner, a bunch of Christmas tunes, etc.

The interesting thing about the exercise is that after a couple of years, I found myself being able to play songs that I hadn't heard in years, since the period of time I considered myself "tone deaf." This implies to me that I was not, actually, tone deaf during that period (otherwise how would I be able to memorize the melody and play it back years later?) but rather lacked a specific, learnable skill to translate the music in my head onto the bass.
 
#16
In Air Bassist,

Where learning multiple instruments is fine, don't quit bass. That'd be like saying "Well this is too hard to do so I'll give up and find something easier" (not saying drums are easy).

If it's easy, it's not worth doing. (works in SO many scenarios)
 
#17
Disappear said:
In Air Bassist,

Where learning multiple instruments is fine, don't quit bass. That'd be like saying "Well this is too hard to do so I'll give up and find something easier" (not saying drums are easy).

If it's easy, it's not worth doing. (works in SO many scenarios)
Click to expand...

+1 quitting just for one reason isn't enough, specially if that reason can be improved on.
 
#18
In Air Bassists said:
So I have been playing guitar and bass for almost 15 years. I can play just about anything you throw my way, as long as there are tabs. This is where my problem has always been, learning by ear. My technique is fine, timing great, awreness of how music is written (popular progressions, correct scales, etc) great.

I am starting to think that maybe, if I want to be a studio musician, a melodic instrument isn't going to get me to that level. This is where switching to drums comes in.

I have always been tempted by drums, and reselling my bass gear could easily net me a great electronic and acoustic kit, so money would not be an issue.

Have you experienced my situation/frustration in the past? Is 28 to old to start an instrument with the hopes of becoming semi-professional?

Thanks TB
Click to expand...

How long does it take for you to listen to a new song and be able to sing, hum or whistle along with the melody or come up with something that goes along with it? If you can do that, you need to learn the neck better. A good thing to practice is to hum or whistle a note and go to it. Eventually, you'll be able to go directly to it, but coming close is a good start.
 
#19
If you can't learn songs by ear, I'm not sure switching instruments will help. While you're not dealing with the same issues of notes and chords, you're going to face a lot more in the way of complex rhythms, limb independence (playing 4 things at once, effectively), and a very steep learning curve (for most folks). The drums are not easier than any other instrument. In many ways, they can be a lot harder.

I'd suggest starting out on drums by spending at least a year with a good instructor. That instructor is almost certainly going to want you to learn to read and write drums charts in standard notation. If you want to become a studio drummer, you'll need to be able to sight read well. If there's not a drum chart (which is common), you're going to need to read the bass or piano music (in standard notation, again). You'll be counting bars and listening for chord changes - all while driving the groove and keeping the time. But I think following chord changes and such was your original issue on the bass and guitar. So now you're back where you started.

Like so many have said, spend some time doing ear training. I don't suggest giving up and selling off your gear without really, really buckling down and working on ear training.
 
#20
So correct me if I'm wrong, but it read to me like the OP wants a career as a studio muscian and seesm to think not being able to pick up and play by ear is a hindrance to that and everything is fine as long as there are tabs.

Studio musicians are given music; either all written out or lead sheets and expected to improvise from there. REading music, havbing enough theory to be bale to crate lines that seems to be a bigger gap that ear training enough to pick everything up by just listening. Wouldn't ear training be linked to interval recognition on the fretboard and staff notation?
 

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