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Carol Kaye tidbit

#21
Very intersting thread. Thanks, 62bass for sharing that interesting statement from Kaye. In the interest of full disclosure (and mostly for those who may not catch it), Carol Kaye is an endorsing artist for Thomastik Jazz Flats. That's not to imply that the strings are not as good as she says they are; simply to point out that she is paid to promote those strings. This info is mostly for the newbies who are more easily swayed by stuff like this. ;)
Just wanted to get that out in the open. :)
 
#22
Carol is an endorser for them, but she does really believe they're great strings. She doesn't go endorsement hopping and sticks fairly rigidly to equipment she likes. I believe that if she uses it, she uses it because she likes it first and because they offered her an endorsement second.
 
#23
JimmyM said:
OK, point taken on the lightening up a bit. And no, I can't pick out any examples of her playing out of tune, but then again, I don't recall her playing chords, and there are other more difficult ways to compensate for it. She has said many times that she believes intonation on bass is a myth, and it just isn't so. Maybe it works for her, but I can easily tell the difference between a bass properly intonated and one that's not. So can most skilled bass players.
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True, she doesn't play full chords much in her recorded parts at least that I've heard. Does a lot of minor and major 10ths though.

I don't recall her saying that intonation on a bass is a myth-just the fact that if a mute is properly made and installed it will not throw your intonation off and you should not have to reset the intonation. I think she finds it a bit silly to obsess about things like getting intonation down to a 100th of a cent when your bass hass to be in tune with the rest of the instruments. I ould name an awful lot of guitar plkayers who are way out of tune all over the neck and yet it doesn't get noticed.

Carol believes on spending energy and time on getting your playing together, not talking about gear, and from a professional with that many years of experience and a proven track record of hits, I can't fault her for that. And I'm pretty sure she can tell the difference if her bass is out of tune :) and intonates it so it averages out nicely over the whole fingerboard. I do it mostly that way for myself, although if setting up a bass for someone else and he's paying for it, I'll set it up the way he wants.

Jimmy, I'm not finding fault with your playing and I know you have the ears to tell if a bass is intonated well enough or not. You've been around and playing for a living almost as long as I have.

62bass
 
#24
totallyfrozen said:
Very intersting thread. Thanks, 62bass for sharing that interesting statement from Kaye. In the interest of full disclosure (and mostly for those who may not catch it), Carol Kaye is an endorsing artist for Thomastik Jazz Flats. That's not to imply that the strings are not as good as she says they are; simply to point out that she is paid to promote those strings. This info is mostly for the newbies who are more easily swayed by stuff like this. ;)
Just wanted to get that out in the open. :)
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You're welcome, totallyfrozen (are you from Canada or something?) Yes, Carol endorses Thomastic strings for both bass and guitar. She does however actually use them exclusively and really believes in the product. After using them myself, so do I. But others prefer different strings and for them that's fine. The newbies will eventually try enough brands before they finally decide on what they want to use. It sure was simple when I first started to play. You got a Fender and played the flatwounds that came with it. You didn't have many choices. You changed pickups only if the one in your bass failed and then you got a replacement from Fender.:)

62bass
 
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#25
I once told Carol that I thought TI strings were too loose for me, and she said just move the saddle back. I replied, "Won't that throw off the intonation?" And she replied that intonation for bass was such a myth and definitely used the word "myth" in her reply. Of course, she's basing it on upright players not needing proper intonation, so I'm guessing her opinion comes from that.

Anyway, she's right...we do spend too much time obsessing on gear...especially me as of late. I was a lot happier when I'd just plug into anything and be cool about it ;)

And same to you, bro...got a lot of respect for you.
 
#26
JimmyM said:
Carol is an endorser for them, but she does really believe they're great strings. She doesn't go endorsement hopping and sticks fairly rigidly to equipment she likes. I believe that if she uses it, she uses it because she likes it first and because they offered her an endorsement second.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jimmy. Much better stated than my post. I didn't see yours when I replied.
 
#27
JimmyM said:
I once told Carol that I thought TI strings were too loose for me, and she said just move the saddle back. I replied, "Won't that throw off the intonation?" And she replied that intonation for bass was such a myth and definitely used the word "myth" in her reply. Of course, she's basing it on upright players not needing proper intonation, so I'm guessing her opinion comes from that.

Anyway, she's right...we do spend too much time obsessing on gear...especially me as of late. I was a lot happier when I'd just plug into anything and be cool about it ;)

And same to you, bro...got a lot of respect for you.
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Thanks Jimmy. It's nice to communicate with a voice of reason and you're an honourable man.

62bass
 
#28
Hi , just wondering , without starting a Jamerson vs Kaye debate (which I would really hate to do), on Carols site there are a couple of soundclips , one of them is a bass track for bernadette and another is a bass track for I was made to love her , I always thought Jamerson played on these tracks , perhaps they both recorded parts for these songs , can anyone clarify this for me?
 
#29
walruswaspaul said:
Hi , just wondering , without starting a Jamerson vs Kaye debate (which I would really hate to do), on Carols site there are a couple of soundclips , one of them is a bass track for bernadette and another is a bass track for I was made to love her , I always thought Jamerson played on these tracks , perhaps they both recorded parts for these songs , can anyone clarify this for me?
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That will almost certainly start a debate, so it's better to leave it alone. I'm sure you know that already. :) Listen for yourself and make up your own mind. Someone else's opinion shouldn't bother you much if it differs from yours or sway your opinion if you have certainty in your own beliefs.
 
#30
sevenyearsdown said:
No time to change strings, but enough time to trade in and setup a new bass. That makes perfect sense.:rollno:
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I asked Carol about this sevenyears. Here's her reply--

"you can run into any store, have the guys there pick out the bass for you, and get to the next date and have the 1-2 mins it takes to set it up (even for a shim in the neck) and play....

it would take me a lot longer to change new strings and quickly "age them with the gunk" breaking them in so they'd record good.....than the lunch-break drop-in at the store to get the new bass with pre-aged strings to begin with.."

Bear in mind that she's talking about back in the 60s and 70s before giant chain stores like Guitar Center. She dealt with a couple music stores in LA that catered to the many top pro session players and working musicians there. The guys who worked in those stores (often the owners) knew the instruments they were selling, unlike a lot of places now. They'd have them set up pretty well and they were on display and played a lot before they went out the door. Now I go into a store and some young guitar player who doesn't know the first thing about a bass tries to steer me to something that he thinks looks cool. "hey dude--you gotta try this. It's wicked". Then he picks it up, cranks the treble wide open and plays the one obligatory slap solo that he knows. :)

62bass
 
#32
62bass said:
...coming from playing Gibson L-5s and Epiphone Emperors, you quickly noticed that the Fender Bass was not a "great instrument" like those fine top pro guitars,


Basses are simply built better these days, and the great generic pickups on my Ibanez...what can I say? They're perfect.
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It's refreshing to hear this from someone who's been there. A nice change from the holy grail worship you read about old Fenders.

Thanks for posting those stories 62bass. I think I'll go check out Carol's site.
 
#39
JimmyM said:
OK, point taken on the lightening up a bit. And no, I can't pick out any examples of her playing out of tune, but then again, I don't recall her playing chords, and there are other more difficult ways to compensate for it. She has said many times that she believes intonation on bass is a myth, and it just isn't so. Maybe it works for her, but I can easily tell the difference between a bass properly intonated and one that's not. So can most skilled bass players.
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Yes, I'm sure you can hear it when a bass is not properly intonated but all the others in the audience are barely aware that the bass is even there. That is unless it is way too loud.
 
#40
Flabass said:
Yes, I'm sure you can hear it when a bass is not properly intonated but all the others in the audience are barely aware that the bass is even there. That is unless it is way too loud.
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Not only do I not believe that anymore in this day and age where the first thing most people check in a home theater system is bass response, but the audience's level of sophistication is no excuse to be slack. Carol doesn't ignore intonation because she's slack, but because it's a holdover from upright basses where setting intonation is immaterial. Anyone else who ignores it is slack.

I would also caution you not to underestimate what your audience knows and what it doesn't know. For everyone who doesn't know, there is someone who does. Plus, even with those who don't know, they DO know when you have bad sound. They can't put it into words why you have bad sound, but they know. Thinking they don't know anything is a big mistake, and is a sign of disrespect.
 

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