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Double Bass carved bass bar.

#21
uprightben said:
The biggest problem in my mind with a carved in bass bar is that is is associated with cheap, crappy work.
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+1.

Remember, kindly, that these "shops" in those days (1600's up to the late 1800's) didn't take kindly to making basses. They took up too much room in the shop, weren't as easy to sell as the smaller instruments in the string family simply because there were less bass players and the bass playing wasn't as refined as it is today, so there was less demand for any refinery. Also, the basses had three gut strings.......not alot of "refinery" to worry about.
 
#22
Paul Warburton said:
+1.

Remember, kindly, that these "shops" in those days (1600's up to the late 1800's) didn't take kindly to making basses. They took up too much room in the shop, weren't as easy to sell as the smaller instruments in the string family simply because there were less bass players and the bass playing wasn't as refined as it is today, so there was less demand for any refinery. Also, the basses had three gut strings.......not alot of "refinery" to worry about.
Click to expand...

3 gut strings rule! :)

Here is mine - before some more graduation. I intend to never have anything but 3 gut strings on this bass, so I made my bar light:

Link Removed
 
#23
I've have had the pleasure to test mentioned Windelband Nobles basses with carved bass bar (and also his hybrid Junior basses) visiting the castle where he craafts them.
Well, traveling back home 6 hours by car I was caught in a strange mix of feelings:
Fell in love with his basses (sound+setup+looks) and at the same time deeply sad that I had to leave them behind.
One day I will travel home with one of these - that's for sure.

"cheap, crappy"? - well, no way.
 
#24
Why do interal bar? I bet that in Germany in the late 19thC and early 20thC good spruce was quite dear, and the shop owners hated to see it wasted on basses, especially if you had apprentices which were probably working for only meals and a bed.

My two older (~1880,1920) German basses both had integral bars, and both have pronounced sinkage down at the bottom of the bar. I've been told by luthiers I trust that this is absolutely typical of German shop basses of this vintage. The integral bar is the primary culprit, but also the basses tended to be graduated evenly over the whole top, rather than being made slightly thicker in the middle. Bill Merchant has restored two of my basses by removing the integral bar and inlaying a large graduated patch in the bridge/soundpost area, and thinning around the edges. One of the basses I acquired after the work was done, so I can't make an A/B comparison, but on the second I ordered the work myself and found the bass incredibly improved afterwards.

Will a new bass with an integral bar sink after many decades? Perhaps if the problems of the older shop basses have been analysed and addressed then maybe not, but I must say I am sceptical.
 
#25
The problem is that for some reason some luthiers do clue the bass bar with tension onto the top wood. This tension is responsible for drawing down the top over time.
I cannot tell why some luthiers clue the bar with tension but I've been told by other luthiers that this is nonsense and responsible for the sunken top mess!
Well, that's what I've been told.
 
#27
Jerry, you make a very good point-the bass bar that is selected often is tighter grain than the top grain and this plus it is glued at a slight angle adds strength to the top.

I work part-time in a bass shop and we have removed several integrated bars. It's a lot of work but many would agree that it is worth it.

There is a good discussion on Ken Smiths forum on this subject that might add to the good points made here.
 

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