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case of missing mid range

#21
ladycabdriver said:
why do all the 80s funk records and motown esq recording have such strong mid range in bass guitar. do i need a different amp. using fender jazz bass with a roland kc 350 amp.
no effects or compressors etc...my tone seems suby and has decent highs but little mid. I'm not eq on the amp and leaving bass settings pretty flat.
Click to expand...

If moving the eq knobs doesn't do the job, you have some good options without buying a new amp.

Cheapest would be to get a Zoom multi-effect and use one of it's amp simulation, pre-amp simulations, and/or eq models. The different Zoom units vary in price from about 50$ to 200$ in United States currency.

Or, for a little more money, you could go for a dedicated pre-amp pedal. Many choices here, but I like the Tech 21 VT series.

Basically the Roland keyboard amp is similar to a powered speaker...you have the power amp section and the speaker of a combo amp, but lack the preamp. Quite a few people run preamp pedals into powered speakers, or to drive a power amp with cabinets.
One of the advantages is that you can run different pedals for a completely different sounding rig.

I have both a VT pedal and a couple of different Zoom pedals. The Zoom is more flexible, but the Tech 21 is easy to adjust on the fly live and I can dial in a good sound with any bass very quickly. And you can use them together for even more variety.
 
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#22
ladycabdriver said:
why do all the 80s funk records and motown esq recording have such strong mid range in bass guitar. do i need a different amp. using fender jazz bass with a roland kc 350 amp.
no effects or compressors etc...my tone seems suby and has decent highs but little mid. I'm not eq on the amp and leaving bass settings pretty flat.
Click to expand...

Before you buy more crap, favoring one pickup or the other by backing off the volume a bit will add mids. Running both wide open results in a humbucker effectively, and on a jazz scoops the mids out.
 
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#23
InhumanResource said:
Before you buy more crap, favoring one pickup or the other by backing off the volume a bit will add mids. Running both wide open results in a humbucker effectively, and on a jazz scoops the mids out.
Click to expand...
Does anyone know if a humbucking j pup sounds different than a single coil j?
And if you had two hb pups in your j bass, do you still get the scoop like with single coils?
Just wondering for future reference.
 
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#24
Old Garage-Bander said:
Does anyone know if a humbucking j pup sounds different than a single coil j?
And if you had two hb pups in your j bass, do you still get the scoop like with single coils?
Just wondering for future reference.
Click to expand...

The only ones I have heard are the "stacked" hum cancelling variety, which to me definitely sound different and less "bite" to them.

Then again on the other hand you have the MFD's that go in G&L basses, and they sound absolutely fearsome. Maybe humbucker wasn't 100% the best characterization :)

I do know that a j-bass with the pickups balanced does have a scooped, boomy sort of sound to it. Tipping the scale towards either pickup will give you more growl and mids. I hardly ever have mine balanced anymore.
 
#25
InhumanResource said:
The only ones I have heard are the "stacked" hum cancelling variety, which to me definitely sound different and less "bite" to them.

Then again on the other hand you have the MFD's that go in G&L basses, and they sound absolutely fearsome. Maybe humbucker wasn't 100% the best characterization :)

I do know that a j-bass with the pickups balanced does have a scooped, boomy sort of sound to it. Tipping the scale towards either pickup will give you more growl and mids. I hardly ever have mine balanced anymore.
Click to expand...

It's the comb filtering from combining two different signals. Both pickups on full cuts somewhere between 400-600Hz. It's why a Jazz sounds generally pretty good into an amp with a 'flat' setting.

This will happen with any bass with two pickups - humbuckers, single-coil J's or stacked/noiseless...

I agree you need to start experimenting with soloing the neck pickup or favouring the bridge with a hint of neck, and use the amps EQ if you have to.
 
#26
I haven't played through a Roland keyboard amp in 25 years, and when I saw you write KC... I knew what the deal was. They've always had a natural scooped tone, I actually think it's very pleasant but generally underpowered for bass. I always liked their bouncy sound though. Anyway, don't be afraid to use those eq knobs. Not enough mids? Add mids! That low knob can rotate to the left too :)
 
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#28
Either a good 10 band EQ or a semi parametric EQ will do you well. The MXR 10 band is a great example...or the Caline copy if you are on a budget (or can only do 9v power). Both offer +/- 12db on each frequency centre. You may find the 6 band does you well, +/- 18db (that's a lot) on each frequency centre, but less frequency centres...and the width of each band will be wider. This means each slider will do more but have less precision.
A great example of a semi parametric EQ is the MXR bass preamp M81. It's got input and output gains, stock bass and treble controls. But the mids are +/- 17db (that's a lot) and the frequency is a nice wide range of 250hz to 1Khz. More than adequate for scooping out mids or even adding them. If you add the input and output gains together, that's a max of 30db...that's a LOT of clean boost.

One of these days...I'll get around to designing my own EQ pedal. A six band graphic, combined with a three band wide Q and varible mids...with variable LP and HP filters. It'll be a big beastie....but it'll be the last word in bass eq.
 
#31
ladycabdriver said:
why do all the 80s funk records and motown esq recording have such strong mid range in bass guitar. do i need a different amp. using fender jazz bass with a roland kc 350 amp.
no effects or compressors etc...my tone seems suby and has decent highs but little mid. I'm not eq on the amp and leaving bass settings pretty flat.
Click to expand...
As others have noted, in an attempt to make a full range keyboard amp with a two-way speaker system, there wound up being a loss in the mids. It is not as noticeable with electronic keys (piano or synth) but is pretty noticeable with bass.

If you plugged the keys into a full range two-way production bass rig you might notice a slight loss of the extreme highs, above about 10 to 12 kHz.
 
#32
ladycabdriver said:
why do all the 80s funk records and motown esq recording have such strong mid range in bass guitar. do i need a different amp. using fender jazz bass with a roland kc 350 amp.
no effects or compressors etc...my tone seems suby and has decent highs but little mid. I'm not eq on the amp and leaving bass settings pretty flat.
Click to expand...

Nothing a mike pope bass preamp won't solve!
 
#33
welcome to TB!

it's always fun to buy new gear, but before you do i'd suggest you experiment with the eq on your bass. as others have pointed out, on a JJ when you have both pups at equal volume the tone is scooped. sounds good for slap, but it's not the tone you said you wanted to find.

just set your amp flat, and try cheating the bass's blend knob toward the neck pup, and then toward the bridge pup. (that's if you have the volume/blend/tone wiring; if you have volume/volume/tone, mess around with the relative proportion of the two separate volume knobs.) might get you something like the tone you're seeking. IMHO, the JJ config is quite versatile. just takes a little experimentation.
 
#34
Nobody's said it so far, so I may be stepping on a land mine, but most of those Motown recordings were likely recorded with a P-bass, which has a little more midrange to begin with, while your jazz, as others have mentioned, tends to be a bit scooped. Using the neck pickup will get you quite a ways towards that sound, but not all the way. I have tried and given up on making a Jazz sound like a P. It sounds great, but not the same. You may have more success finding the right frequency and amount of boost to get you there, though. If you do, post it here!

edit--meant to say using the NECK pickup will get you closer, and it looks like Spirit of Ox beat me to it while I was writing my post:thumbsup:
 
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#35
Here's something else to consider, since you may not have the most optimum amp for bass.

What is your set up like?
Pick up height?

I ask because those 2 things can help make a big difference in tone.

I have both a Jazz and a P, and on my jazz, i never play with both pick ups dimed.
I also back off on one or the other about 15-20%
And although you can get close to getting a Jazz to sound sound like P, it'll never be close enough.
 
#36
Your amp Is merely decent for bass but here's how to boost mids with what you have


Your amp has only treble and bass controls so how do you add mids?
Turn down the treble and bass equally and turn up the volume to match

There you go - More mids to taste

Some folks prefer two band EQ because of this
 
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#37
And no one gives credit to those great unsung bassists outside of Jamerson who actually knew what they were doing with their instruments and their gear :-). And by the way Motown was not the only source of Funk. As a matter of fact Motown was more Pop oriented than Funk. While it is not totally anti Motown, Funk was a Revolution of sort. A time where certain things weren't funny or acceptable anymore.
 
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#38
ladycabdriver said:
why do all the 80s funk records and motown esq recording have such strong mid range in bass guitar. do i need a different amp. using fender jazz bass with a roland kc 350 amp.
no effects or compressors etc...my tone seems suby and has decent highs but little mid. I'm not eq on the amp and leaving bass settings pretty flat.
Click to expand...

Metal and slap generally scoop mids ....
 

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