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Changing Keys for Covers? When is too much?

#43
buldog5151bass said:
Certain songs just make you scratch your head. Sir Duke, a song with horns, is in B, where you would think C or B flat would make more sense for everyone. Stevie must have heard something.
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Yeah, Nathan Watts had to bend his G string up a half step to get the highest note because he was one fret short of the written line.
 
#44
I don't see a problem with it, at all. Change as much as you need to to accommodate the singer.
You can't expect a singer to sing most songs from a variety of bands in the same key as each singer
in those bands. It's unrealistic (unless they are David Coverdale or Nancy Heart, maybe).

I don't think most people in the audience will notice.
 
#46
I did a choir dress rehearsal where the conductor didn't check us on the pitch pipe for a couple songs in a row and this girl says "I don't know if it matters or not, but we've dropped about a quarter step flat."
Perfect pitch will do that to you!

without nitpicking on that level, I think Rush played a couple songs down a whole step at their last tour and it sounded weird to drop these riffs. When it comes to chord based songs I really don't think it matters.
 
#47
RichardCranium said:
That's one of the exceptions. If the song is a standard chord progression or a 1-4-5 arrangement it's not that hard to slide it up or down a half step. But try to play stuff like Don't Stop Believin' or Livin' On A Prayer in Eb without retuning. It's not gonna sound the same. A lot of guitar rock is based off how the guitar is tuned. That's one of the reasons the 5 string bass came into prominence is that when music started shifting in the 80's from guitar-driven to more keys and synth driven they didn't have the physical limitations of standard guitar tuning when writing.
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I did Don't Stop Believing in D a few weeks ago. I didn't retune, but I did use a 5. Sounded great.
 
#49
BassCliff said:
But you must keep in mind the timbre of the guitars and other stringed instruments, how they use open strings or a capo to keep the same sonic feel and playability to the song.
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I have sometimes had to explain that aspect to drummers and keyboard players. Sometimes their expressions have glazed over during that explanation.
 
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#50
We do it quite often in our band. The biggest stretch is we do is 1 1/2 steps usually. My guitar player gets frustrated with me because some songs I have to back to the woodshed to change keys... especially complex ones.

There are some songs that just lose the feel, and we just drop trying to do them. The most memorable one was Bruno Mars "Locked out of Heaven" It just not working for us even a half step back.
 
#51
I have a hard time playing songs that are really ingrained in a different key.

SOLUTION: I rerecorded them in the new key and listened to them over and over until they stopped sounding 'wrong'.

Those people that do hear it will RARELY say anything because its so common it's accepted as common practice, plus saying anything makes you look like a smarta$$ and can be rewarded with mockery.
 
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#52
When is too much??
Every song is different. Use an app like Amazing Slow Downer and try it yourself by transposing it in real time. Some songs are a LOT more 'flexible' to transposing than others.... some just sound dead.

eg. Many of The Doors tunes sounded dull IMO when I fill in for a tribute band. Keys player just used the transpose button, singer was less strain, drummer didn't care, but the guitarist and I both agreed it lost a bit of the original 'feel'.


That said, some jazz standards are incredibly flexible and sound good in almost any key. Maybe that's why they are 'standards'.
 
#54
Groove Doctor said:
When is too much??
Every song is different. Use an app like Amazing Slow Downer and try it yourself by transposing it in real time. Some songs are a LOT more 'flexible' to transposing than others.... some just sound dead.

eg. Many of The Doors tunes sounded dull IMO when I fill in for a tribute band. Keys player just used the transpose button, singer was less strain, drummer didn't care, but the guitarist and I both agreed it lost a bit of the original 'feel'.


That said, some jazz standards are incredibly flexible and sound good in almost any key. Maybe that's why they are 'standards'.
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They are standards because you are playing the song, not recreating an iconic performance. It is a case that only the head has to be recognizable. Licks and fills outside of the melody are optional and not considered mandatory for the song.
 
#55
Groove Doctor said:
SOLUTION: I rerecorded them in the new key and listened to them over and over until they stopped sounding 'wrong'.
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My solution is to have three basses I practice with. One tuned to Eb, one tuned to E, and another I tune to F or Gb for those dozen or so songs that don't fit. Then there are drop "D" tunings for each of those. I arrange my practice list for each of those so that when we play live, I am playing just like I practice.
 
#57
Groove Doctor said:
^ @waveman: it SOUNDS wrong to my ear compared to what's 'ingrained' from decades of hearing a specific recording.... it's not about the fingering.
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I'm not sure what you mean by that. I am playing the notes as recorded (or my interpretation of that). I am just practicing the correct fingering/position for how we play live. For instance, we play Pat Benatar's Heart Breaker in Eb when tuned to Eb. If you practiced that song in F, when tuned to E, like the song is recorded, the there are a lot of notes in the bridge that would be fingered vastly different. So, my solution is to practice that song with my bass tuned to F. Essentially we are playing that song a whole step back from the recorded version. For me, it is about fingering...
 

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