Just a fwiw, but in my very strong opinion, the Audere completely ruins everything that sounds good about the Fender CS 60's jazz pickups. I thought it sounded awesome with Dimarzio Ultras. Ymmv, but it was such a huge change in tone, I wouldn't believe otherwise.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Changing pickups - actual improvement or hooey?
- Thread starter Gothic
- Start date
Just a fwiw, but in my very strong opinion, the Audere completely ruins everything that sounds good about the Fender CS 60's jazz pickups. I thought it sounded awesome with Dimarzio Ultras. Ymmv, but it was such a huge change in tone, I wouldn't believe otherwise.
What gets destroyed? Overtones? Attack? Sensitivity? Please describe the difference.
It doesn't have the classic single coil jazz sound that you think of when you think of a jazz bass. All the character is gone. I had John Bolin put it back to original, and when he listened to it both ways, he couldn't believe it. I think of the Audere as being transparent, but it definitely doesn't just amplify the tone that is already present in this case. If you like the 60's jazz bass sound, I wouldn't recommend it. It was definitely more of a modern sound like the original Fender noiseless jazz pickups. I would call it sterile, but that means different things to different people.
I swapped the stock pickups in my Hohner F1 PJ with the Dimarzios PJ set, took the bass to a new level. It was a used bass, and played it for a long time before I finally swapped them out and was really glad I did. The originals were noisy and thin. I also changed the original stock in my MIM P bass with Lollars. I love the way the Lollars sound, but I had the stocks swapped out pretty soon after I bought the bass I dont reacall what I didnt like about the originals but I am happy with the Lollars.
As others have said, it depends. For example, decades ago I had mixed results with that original active EMG PJ set: it magically transformed one instrument into a beast (in a good way), but was totally 'meh' on another.
For me, pickups are like strings: I don't have a favorite set overall*, I have to match the set to the specific bass. And on that note, I go with string changes before pickup changes for the obvious reasons: cost, and ease of installation.
*I usually look at Nordstrand first -- but they offer many options for each style, so I'd call them my go-to brand, and not "set".
For me, pickups are like strings: I don't have a favorite set overall*, I have to match the set to the specific bass. And on that note, I go with string changes before pickup changes for the obvious reasons: cost, and ease of installation.
*I usually look at Nordstrand first -- but they offer many options for each style, so I'd call them my go-to brand, and not "set".
People like to wax poetic about tonewoods, but when it comes to electric instruments you can put a nice pickup in a piece of plastic and sound great. Literally (looking at you, Armstrong.) Or Masonite. Or whatever. Strings also make a big difference, obviously. My approach to instruments for the last 20 years has been, buy lower tier decent stuff (Epiphone, Squier, etc.), swap out the pickups, bridges, nut, and tuners (on guitar, cause I like locking tuners on guitar), and end up with something every bit as good as top-tier for 1/3 of the price, even after labor.
Also, I had (well, still have, it's for sale right now) a Jazz that I put Stingray pickups in. It sounds KILLER. Cause that's how Stingrays sound, killer. So swapping for a different type of pickup altogether, that makes a big difference, and swapping a cheap ceramic pickup for a good AlNiCo one, for example, makes a big difference, but swapping out for the same type and quality pickup is going to be pretty subtle and, for me, probably not worth it. Although I do like to use the same thing across a variety of instruments, then you get a better idea of the characteristics of the individual instruments. Which again, in my experience, is usually pretty subtle.
Also, I had (well, still have, it's for sale right now) a Jazz that I put Stingray pickups in. It sounds KILLER. Cause that's how Stingrays sound, killer. So swapping for a different type of pickup altogether, that makes a big difference, and swapping a cheap ceramic pickup for a good AlNiCo one, for example, makes a big difference, but swapping out for the same type and quality pickup is going to be pretty subtle and, for me, probably not worth it. Although I do like to use the same thing across a variety of instruments, then you get a better idea of the characteristics of the individual instruments. Which again, in my experience, is usually pretty subtle.
I have done this once. I Had a great P-J set that I had removed from a bass prior to parting with it. Eventually I missed the sound. I purchased an inexpensive bass for the express purpose of having something I could put these pickups in. Had I listened to the stock pickups first, I might have liked it, which would have spoiled my plans.
I play a J, P, Ric, Warwick Corvette passive, and a Zon Sonus Custom 5. All through an SVT Pro 3 into a 4x10 Ampeg Pro Neo. I use zero effects. I bought each bass because I like the way they sound. I would not dream of changing the sounds I get and love. I have never ever had a complaint on my tone ever, in 20 years with this setup. (Except for being too LOUD)
My first bass was an Aria Pro II. Nice bass to play but had a big ugly yellow soap box pup.
Sound was so toneless it was like the bass was made of cotton wool.
Swapped out the pup for an active precision style pup. Made no difference to the sound at all.
Ended up putting the soap box pup into a crappy old bass I had been given. It sounded great.
Sound was so toneless it was like the bass was made of cotton wool.
Swapped out the pup for an active precision style pup. Made no difference to the sound at all.
Ended up putting the soap box pup into a crappy old bass I had been given. It sounded great.
I have an Ibanez SRA555BB. It came with EMG40HZ pickups (and the standard Ibanez EQ). It didn't matter what I did all I got was mud and I was considering selling. I changed the pickups and EQ out for a set of Bartolini M45CBC pickups and an HR5.3AP preamp harness. Now this bass is the best of my collection. Far better than my recently acquired SR2605 premium with Nordstrand Big Singles, which is nearly twice the price (I think I am just not a single pickup man...can stand the hum).
I definitely think changing pickups is a change for the better.
I definitely think changing pickups is a change for the better.
Well I'm an old guy and I'm pretty set in my ways, also a builder and a repairman for the last 20+ years so I'll weigh in. I have never changed a pickup on a bass to get a different tone or sound, I have tried different pickups on new builds so I have some experience with that aspect but it didn't give me the ability to do an A/B comparison. In reading through a lot of these posts a strong theme seems to be going to Humbucking pickups from single coils. That could be an option, but people who don't truly understand pickup design and response should be aware that a humbucker doesn't just reduce hum, it also reduces a LOT of high frequency response. There was one post where a player talked about changing from a Humbucker to single coils and was amazed at how the bass came alive. I've used stock fenders,duncans , quite a few Bartolini's and one set of Nordstrands. My favorite in many cases are the pickups built by Tom Brantley who just consistently makes quality products that perform really well. The comments about string type and gauge is spot on and is a huge influence on tone but don't overlook some very basic things like the value and quality of both the tone capacitor and the potentiometers on basses - particularly import basses. Look, if you don't like the way your car is running, would the first thing you do is pull the motor and put in something else? Maybe all it needs is a tuneup and a new air filter !!
Last edited:
I swapped the stock pickups from an 1981 Bullet Bass Deluxe (USA long scale) for some Sentell replacements. It’s like a brand new bass. Punch, low end, crystalline high end. The tone knob became like a magic wand. Can’t recommend their stuff enough. YMMV for just about anything but for me it was revelatory https://www.sentellpickups.net/
I guess it depends on what you start with. If your playing an American Fender, it’s going to have some pretty good pups to start with. There probably better but is the cost/return worth it? I picked up a Jaco style Squier Jazz bass recently. It’s built nice, plays great but the sound was lack luster. A set of SD Apollo pups, nicer nut/bridge and wiring, TI flats and it’s a whole lot better.
I vote hooey for the most part.
For how much a pickup swap costs, I've never personally experienced a swap where the difference was worth the price of it. Changing to a different string is a far higher bang/buck ratio in terms of altering the actual sound enough for anyone to really be able hear the difference. Going to flats from rounds or vice versa will make a huge difference for a fraction of the cost. Plucking in a different place will make an even larger difference for a cost of $0.00. A good compressor like a Cali76 will make an absolutely enormous difference for maybe around the same money. And so on.
In other words, unless you're chiseling new holes and putting completely different pickups in completely different positions in there, a pickup swap is a very low value modification in my experience. And what difference there really is is largely just placebo at that. Typically only audible to the player/owner, and not the audience.
Worse, when you're done, you're left with the old pickups sitting around that you can't sell, because everyone else with your bass already has a set of them too that they can't get rid of either. Because they've already tried the same PU swap as you just did.
In saying that, the bridge PU in my Tony Franklin is some kind of super hot deal that doesn't sound like any Jazz bass style single coil I've ever heard. It sounds like an extra hot overwound item, except for its puzzlingly good high frequency response which overwound pickups aren't known for. I've been tempted more than once to try to get hold of one somehow, and drop it in the bridge position of my Jaco. The Jaco has 60's style vintage PU's in it and it has always sounded, well, like a 1962 Jazz bass at the bridge. kind of weak and clicky cloppy, and very difficult to get consistent "pop" on the notes. Sounds amazing, with a nice, woody P bass tone on the neck PU, but just kind of clinky and watery at the bridge... Well, you can see what my mental process is on that... But so far I've known better not to do that because the result would likely be expensive and disappointing.
I am, however, more tempted to try putting rounds on it again and seeing what tonal changes that would make.
So I'm not totally immune to the idea, but I rarely consider it anymore these days, given the much higher value alternatives like new strings, better electronics and different playing techniques. The bang/buck is much more in favor of those instead.
L
For how much a pickup swap costs, I've never personally experienced a swap where the difference was worth the price of it. Changing to a different string is a far higher bang/buck ratio in terms of altering the actual sound enough for anyone to really be able hear the difference. Going to flats from rounds or vice versa will make a huge difference for a fraction of the cost. Plucking in a different place will make an even larger difference for a cost of $0.00. A good compressor like a Cali76 will make an absolutely enormous difference for maybe around the same money. And so on.
In other words, unless you're chiseling new holes and putting completely different pickups in completely different positions in there, a pickup swap is a very low value modification in my experience. And what difference there really is is largely just placebo at that. Typically only audible to the player/owner, and not the audience.
Worse, when you're done, you're left with the old pickups sitting around that you can't sell, because everyone else with your bass already has a set of them too that they can't get rid of either. Because they've already tried the same PU swap as you just did.
In saying that, the bridge PU in my Tony Franklin is some kind of super hot deal that doesn't sound like any Jazz bass style single coil I've ever heard. It sounds like an extra hot overwound item, except for its puzzlingly good high frequency response which overwound pickups aren't known for. I've been tempted more than once to try to get hold of one somehow, and drop it in the bridge position of my Jaco. The Jaco has 60's style vintage PU's in it and it has always sounded, well, like a 1962 Jazz bass at the bridge. kind of weak and clicky cloppy, and very difficult to get consistent "pop" on the notes. Sounds amazing, with a nice, woody P bass tone on the neck PU, but just kind of clinky and watery at the bridge... Well, you can see what my mental process is on that... But so far I've known better not to do that because the result would likely be expensive and disappointing.
I am, however, more tempted to try putting rounds on it again and seeing what tonal changes that would make.
So I'm not totally immune to the idea, but I rarely consider it anymore these days, given the much higher value alternatives like new strings, better electronics and different playing techniques. The bang/buck is much more in favor of those instead.
L
Last edited:
That’s cool. Your experience with the TF pickups is why other people swap pickups. Totally cool if it’s not your bag, but different brains, different ears, different rooms, different bands, etc.
Perhaps, but like I said, that's a lot further down the list of temptations for things to try for me, below different strings and electronics. For example, I'm nearly 100% certain that simply switching to a set of roundwounds and pounding them hard, pouring lots of sweat on them, for at least a month, would velvet/thicken/pop up my Jaco far more than trying to find that pickup in my TF and swapping it in there. That's based on my experience with a dead set of flats vs a dead set of rounds on my basses over the last several decades I've been playing. A pickup swap is an expensive high risk gamble with a low probability of really making a pleasing, if audible at all, difference, but a simple string change is much less risky, with a much better known result for far less money.
IOW, I think guys run out of options besides swapping pickups a lot less quickly then they think they do. I think a PU swap should be closer to the last resort to get a good sound out of a unsatisfying bass than the first resort.
But as they say, it's your money and your bass..
L
Last edited:
If done as an unknown quantity, fishing around for something elusive of the 'you'll know when you hear it' variety, then I would agree. Fishing expeditions, like anything with an unknown end state, can get very expensive very quickly, especially where subtle changes such as small under- or over-winding or different are concerned. But if the required end state is known and guaranteed by the swap then it is probably less risky than most other 'upgrades'. In my case I knew what the change from alnico to ceramic would deliver, and it did. In spades, and totally risk free.
