Double Bass Changing strings

[bassist1962]

Does anyone else use the fanned string method? Using this tech, the E string goes to the tuning peg farthest from the nut, the G goes to the peg closest, and the A and D fall in the middle respectively. Much like what the compensated tailpiece does, but at the opposite end of the string. The Bass Shop in Sydney uses this technique on all its instruments, apparently he learned it from a bass shop he visited in France...

So if I am interpretting this right, when I look at the peg box, from top to bottom, it would be
E
A
D
G

If this is not correct, is there a link that shows this method?

 

[dchan]

I think it has to do with increasing overall string length, allowing the string to come to pitch at a lower tension. Having a longer length of string at pitch distributes the tension across more mass.... I didn't take physics and can't explain it using the proper terminology, but it makes sense to my hands and ears. The E string greatly opens up and is easier to play.

There's a discussion on something similar to this on Ken Smith's forums. It focuses mainly on switching the traditional A and E tuning pegs.

http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=618

Personally, I have switched the A and E tuning pegs, and did wonders to my school's Juzek. Before the A kind of sucked, and the E felt and sounded too tight. After I switched them, the A became tighter and louder, while the E became looser and much more sonorous.

Ken speculates that changing the angle of the E, from an sharp bend to a far more gentle bend, helps to free up the thickest string and somehow free up its sound. It sounds like a plausible theory.

 

[drurb]

Creating a more gentle angle for the E is one of the reasons that Upton employs the tuner configuration they do with the tuner for the G being the lowest in the peg box. Here's a pic of the peg-box of my bass:

 

[dchan]

Creating a more gentle angle for the E is one of the reasons that Upton employs the tuner configuration they do with the tuner for the G being the lowest in the peg box.....

A lot of luthiers do that nowadays with their new basses. I think it's a smart thing to do.

My theory for stringing the pegbox is that it all depends on the bass and how the strings sound.

The problem with the Juzek was that the E string felt and sounded too tight, while the A string felt floppy and sounded weak; the D and G strings sounded and felt fine, though the G string needed a tone filter. Switching the E and A strings solved the respective problems.

The 'mirrored' pegbox configuration would have probably solved the E string problem, but it would have probably made the A string even worse.

So I would suggest stringing the bass 'regularly', play it for a few weeks and figure out how the strings sound and feel, and restring the bass according to what needs to be done. A shorter afterlength and sharper pull angle will probably get a tighter sound and feel, while a longer afterlength and larger pull angle will probably result in a looser feel and a more sonorous sound. That's my theory, anyway.

 

[drurb]

Thanks, I sure didn't mean to suggest that they were the only ones doing this. I've just never had any difficulty or dissatisfaction in terms of which way the bass is strung. I have a feeling that a 5 degree change in temperature or the way my hands perform on any given day might make bigger differences. I suppose I could be convinced.

 

[dchan]

Thanks, I sure didn't mean to suggest that they were the only ones doing this. I've just never had any difficulty or dissatisfaction in terms of which way the bass is strung. I have a feeling that a 5 degree change in temperature or the way my hands perform on any given day might make bigger differences. I suppose I could be convinced.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that either. I was just saying that modern luthiers have become a little more attuned to that the E string has the sharpest bend and shortest afterlength in the 'traditional' stringing.

But if you get your bass setup well enough, you should probably be practicing instead of constantly fiddling with the setup unnecessarily. Unfortunately for me, my school never bothered to setup its Juzek for several years, so I had to fiddle with it to get it playable.

 

[VegasGutPlucker]

So if I am interpretting this right, when I look at the peg box, from top to bottom, it would be
E
A
D
G

If this is not correct, is there a link that shows this method?

That's correct.

 

[VegasGutPlucker]

Here is a photo of what I'm using at the moment. The lines aren't as neat as I usually like, but I'd never done this to gut strings before. I'm thinking about replacing the E and A with Garbos anyway, due to winding and humidity issues.
Personally, I noticed the difference immediately, and so did a piano player I used to play with a lot at the time. I love experimenting on my instrument because A) there are no luthiers in town and I must learn to do everything I can... glue pot is in the mail and B) I learn about my instrument when I change variables. With vibrating bodies every little thing moves, so everything matters. Tailgut, endpin, pickup placement, oil choice, etc, all are variables that must be looked at. I don't believe in constantly changing any factor too often, giving time for the bass to adjust and for me to adjust is important. Constant fiddling, no. But like I said, there isn't anyone within 400 miles who can do a decent set up for me.
Next time you change your strings, give it a shot. Just PLEASE be careful relearning the tuning peg positions, and beware when giving it to someone else!
"geez, this D isn't tuning at all and I keep turning..." POP!
knock on wood.

Justin
See how steady the hand gets? See how heady the Stan Getz? - Roy James

 

[drurb]

...The lines aren't as neat as I usually like...

Huh? How much neater could they be? About the only thing that seemed a potential issue is how close the windings are to the cheeks of the peg-box. If they're not touching it or pushing against it, you're fine.

 

[bassist1962]

I restrung my bass this weekend to this configuation. I am absolutely amazed at how it opened up the sound. My strings are extremely old, and the bass has several cracks that I have not had a chance to get repaired yet. But, this thing resonates and sings like I have never heard it do before. there is a lot more eveness of volume, tone and sustain from the instrument on all the strings (especially the E). It is very comfortable to play, in that zone, not tight, but not floppy. I'm liking it.

 

[jallenbass]

I tried it and only found that (maybe) the g string sounded a little tighter. No matter what I change on my bass, other than different strings, it always sounds the same.

 

[VegasGutPlucker]

My bass is a 5 year old chinese carved, but it responded just like you said: it sings! Made the E string my favorite 'area' to play in for a while, but the evenness of the volume eventually gets me playing all over. I wonder, would this set up and a compensated tailpiece be overkill? Anyone out there want to experiment?

I restrung my bass this weekend to this configuation. I am absolutely amazed at how it opened up the sound. My strings are extremely old, and the bass has several cracks that I have not had a chance to get repaired yet. But, this thing resonates and sings like I have never heard it do before. there is a lot more eveness of volume, tone and sustain from the instrument on all the strings (especially the E). It is very comfortable to play, in that zone, not tight, but not floppy. I'm liking it.

 

[ADissen]

I tried it too. I have GDA Belcantos with a Spiro Weich E and the A string was not matching the G and D strings in terms of volume and articulation with off the string strokes. (Why break a set of Belcantos with the Weich E? Because I didn't have enough money to buy the Bel E string. But as it turns out a 3.5 year old weich with 2 years of playing is a nice string indeed and im happy with the combo.) But anyways, the most significant changes in sound were in the E and G strings. The E lost tension and gained a more airy, full tone, so that was good. But the G string did the opposite, feels like more tension and the sound got a little tighter. The A string did change for the better, but the change wasn't as significant as the E and G. The jury is out on whether the A and E will stay switched.

 

[JerBo]

Thanks everyone for the *very* useful info... Just re-strung my Engelhardt ES-1 using 'VegasGutPlucker's illustration. I was initially gonna go with 'drurb's ill., but then realized my peg-box is actually opposite- My box is the same as VGP. (Does that mean one of these are lefty's?) Anyhow, I'm sure the different strings are a factor (going from Corelli's to Kolstein Heritage to Spiros) but my G sounds and feels *way* better than ever! And in either case, these strings sound and feel MUCH more even, and IMO were playable immediately. This is the first set of Spiro's Ive used, so I can't say if this is a byproduct of the strings themselves or the reconfig. I'm assuming both, since immediately they're far more balanced than any new set so far. I've always been happy with my A and D, but the E never quite had the sustain or growl I'd like, and the G sounded weak. The G sounds/feels wonderful to me right now (tighter focused sound) which blew me away for a brand new string with no break-in period. The E *seems* like it will be much more to my liking after a week or so, A and D will be great. Has anyone noticed a difference between the 'mirrored' and 'fanned' method? Thanks again

If anyone is wondering, I am using the Spirocore Orchs, red/red

 

[noamgat]

Silly question - numerous posts in this thread say that removing more than 1 string at a time isn't a good idea.
However, when changing the pegbox configuration, you have to remove at least 2 concurrently.

Am I missing something or will my bass likely survive this "trauma" ?

 

[Jay Corwin]

I'm getting ready to change my strings for the first time (the only other time my luthier did it). Here's a pic of what my peg box looks like. When I bought it, it was strung the same way with some other steel string.

Should I just roll with traditional method of G on top and work my way down? Also - all of my current strings seem to wedged against the pegbox.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

You are asking about the Garbos? Velvet strings take up very little space and make for a tidy pegbox. Run the textile string ends through the hole and twist the loose end around the portion between the gear and nut to prevent them from slipping as you bring them to pitch. I would put the strings on the same gears. Do them in this order: E G A D.

 

[jedgargroover]

I live in NYC and my solution is the same as what I do for laundry: Send it out.

 

[Jay Corwin]

Is there any reason they might be strung this way? It seems to go against convention.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

I'm getting ready to change my strings for the first time (the only other time my luthier did it). Here's a pic of what my peg box looks like. When I bought it, it was strung the same way with some other steel string.

Should I just roll with traditional method of G on top and work my way down? Also - all of my current strings seem to wedged against the pegbox.

Hey SEVEN, that *is* the conventional way of stringing a DB peg-box. If you want a little more tension and power from the 'E' string you can switch the 'E' and 'A' string tuner assignments - many basses are walking around with that arrangement too.