'Cheap = better?' Club

[funkingroovin]

In my 15+ years of playing I've owned or played nearly every "off the rack" bass under $2500,and a few boutiques that made me poop a little when I was told their price. I've had gems and duds from nearly every maker,as nobody's perfect ALL the time.(The boutiques were all flawless,but for the price of a good used car and a 6-8 month wait,they'd better be!) At any rate,here's what I've found in my experiences..

In terms of overall finish and playability,give me any early Matsumoku product. That factory set the standard for mass production quality.

If you're into Fender-styles,and the tinkering type like myself,the new Squiers are the way to go. You can build yourself a custom shop clone for less than the down-payment of said custom shop's bass. Their QC has improved greatly,and as mentioned above,as long as the neck is good and the frets workable..

While their body style's not my thing,I have yet to be let down by an Ibanez..

SX and other Rondo stuff? Hit and miss..I've had a few that were easily on par with Fen MIM,and a couple that would've made good boat paddles..

Peavey,also not for me style-wise,but they offer some very nice MIA's at an entry level price..

Last year I took a good look at my herd and was fairly shocked to realize my el cheapo Frankensquier got the most play. I had $$$$'s in 'actual' Fenders hanging on the wall (apparently there for bragging rights),but my junkyard dog got all the love. This made me really think about what I want and need from a bass. Fast forward 10-12 months,and I'm down to three..a Precision,a Jazz,and an ABG,with plans to return a Jazz V to the mix.
The P and J are both parts-builds,cover all areas of the tonal pallet quite well,and look damn fine doing so. They truly play and feel every bit as good (better according to anyone that's played them) as their pedigreed counterparts,and ran around 1/5 the price to assemble.

In the end,EVERY bass is just bits of wood and metal and only worth what someone is willing to pay. If YOU like it,rock the snot out of it!

 

[bassbully]

There's also another issue to factor in - is a bass that costs $1,500 ten times better than a nearly identical bass that costs $150?

I'm sorry you were disappointed by your Fury. But I would point out that there are many here on TB that feel the Fury is the equal, if not better than, a MIA Fender Precision. It's not just me.

I agree. I think the next Fury I see for a decent price is going home with me and I'm a Fender/ Squier fanboy.
Few MIA production basses can match it for what they cost today.

 

[Scott in Dallas]

Good point! So do you belive quality has changed allot overall? Take a Fender P bass for example besides QC what else has really changed?

Manufacturing has changed. The way people view wood and what can be done with it from a mass-production standpoint has changed. The way wood is harvested and dried and treated has evolved. The instrument itself has not significantly changed. Fanned frets, active EQ, neck-thru construction, it's still three feet of metal strings suspended above a magnetic field. You could take the first P bass out of a time capsule and easily find strings that would fit it, plug it into an amp at Guitar Center and make music with it. That's why I pointed out the failure in the car analogy. There wasn't really any sinister point to it. We have a tendency sometimes to forget how simple an instrument it is and make it out to be something magical. In truth, the majority of the magic comes from people too busy playing their instrument to discuss it on a message board.

A skilled woodworker from 50 years ago could have made a bass with tolerances matching anything made today if someone had been willing to pay for it back then. I'm sure there are probably some one-offs that were built that way. Making two pieces of wood fit together perfectly has always been easy. Making twenty thousand pieces of wood fit together perfectly was not at all easy until the last few years.

Leo Fender's incredible innovations aside, almost every builder today is using construction methods that are superior to what Fender has utilized through most of their history. Fender improved their odds by taking the time to hand-fit necks to bodies. But there's really not any reason to think there aren't gems to be found from most any manufacturer.

 

[bassbully]

In my 15+ years of playing I've owned or played nearly every "off the rack" bass under $2500,and a few boutiques that made me poop a little when I was told their price. I've had gems and duds from nearly every maker,as nobody's perfect ALL the time.(The boutiques were all flawless,but for the price of a good used car and a 6-8 month wait,they'd better be!) At any rate,here's what I've found in my experiences..

In terms of overall finish and playability,give me any early Matsumoku product. That factory set the standard for mass production quality.

If you're into Fender-styles,and the tinkering type like myself,the new Squiers are the way to go. You can build yourself a custom shop clone for less than the down-payment of said custom shop's bass. Their QC has improved greatly,and as mentioned above,as long as the neck is good and the frets workable..

While their body style's not my thing,I have yet to be let down by an Ibanez..

SX and other Rondo stuff? Hit and miss..I've had a few that were easily on par with Fen MIM,and a couple that would've made good boat paddles..

Peavey,also not for me style-wise,but they offer some very nice MIA's at an entry level price..

Last year I took a good look at my herd and was fairly shocked to realize my el cheapo Frankensquier got the most play. I had $$$$'s in 'actual' Fenders hanging on the wall (apparently there for bragging rights),but my junkyard dog got all the love. This made me really think about what I want and need from a bass. Fast forward 10-12 months,and I'm down to three..a Precision,a Jazz,and an ABG,with plans to return a Jazz V to the mix.
The P and J are both parts-builds,cover all areas of the tonal pallet quite well,and look damn fine doing so. They truly play and feel every bit as good (better according to anyone that's played them) as their pedigreed counterparts,and ran around 1/5 the price to assemble.

In the end,EVERY bass is just bits of wood and metal and only worth what someone is willing to pay. If YOU like it,rock the snot out of it!

You and I feel the same on this. The Matsumoku stuff as well as Fugigen (spell) were some of the best production basses ever made. In fact this is what the dealer told/showed me years ago and peaked my interest in them.

As for the CV I said it before if I was starting over it would be all I would want and need the other is maybe a classic series or road worn MIM.
None of these are too expensive and are IMO as good as most MIA Fender's. I would mod them where needed them make them shine.
In fact I know a guy who does custom work, paint,repairs and builds guitars who has sanded quite a few CV headstocks down and added widerslide Fender decals for customers..they are that good.

This is what I was trying to say there are some people who like to buy label and are happy, then there are others who enjoy the chase of finding something thought being budget and making it great while saving money.

 

[InternetAlias]

I don't want an expensive bass because it'd get a ding sooner or later. And if I bought an expensive bass it'd look like a work of art - so really, I see no point in ruining a piece of art I am much better off buying something cheap and functional and then modding to my needs.

 

[Scott in Dallas]

I think some players need to justify spending more money on a bass.

It's too bad that people do that. If my SX plays exactly the same as a Fodera Monarch, there are still a thousand reasons I can give why the Fodera's a nicer instrument. If they happened to sound exactly the same, there's 998 reasons it's still a nicer instrument. If I had the money, I'd own a Fodera and wouldn't ever regret it. It's a master-crafted instrument built by people that love the bass as much as the rest of us do.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I don't like cheap basses if cheap means low quality parts and poor fit and finish. I like quality basses that can be had for low prices either new or used.

I think there is no doubt that the best made production and boutique basses are better than the good for the money basses, but not every boutique has a tone or shape that appeals to me. I know I would rather have a Fender style bass than some heavy neck through single cut.

 

[richntiff]

I for one think 99.99 percent of 'boutique' basses are FUGLY. I don't want cheap, but I don't need expensive. Put me in the $300-$500 dollar club please - a good bass in this range will do everything 99.999% of players want or need.

 

[InternetAlias]

"I don't have enough money to buy cheap stuff!"
If I had to choose to have a bass for a lifetime, I'd obviously not choose a cheap one - the reason is repairability. Most high quality and expensive basses are actually crafted with repairability in mind. Just compare polyurethane to nitro or oil finish and you're already there.

 

[old mark]

Most expensive of the 4 basses I own right now is an Epiphone EB3, bought new on a blow out sale for about $220. I also have a Peavey US made Foundation bought from a pawnshop for $150, a Huntington P bass bought for about $85 and a no name Chinese (?) Hoffner type violin shaped hollow body short scale that I got on ebay for under $100.

All different sounds, but the old Peavey beats hell out of my previous '70's Fender tele bass and the others are all very good in their way.

Of course, I started playing in '63 using an original Danelectro Longhorn that I used in bar bands for over a decade...so maybe I don't know what a good bass sounds like...



mark

 

[smcd]

I don't want cheap, but I don't need expensive. Put me in the $300-$500 dollar club please

Uhm.... I hate to say this, but the $300-$500 club is the Cheap Bass Club. Any new bass under $500 is cheap.

a good bass in this range will do everything 99.999% of players want or need.

Depends on whether you're talking new or used. I'd say very few new basses that have a street price under $500 will do everything for everyone. (99.999% is everyone)

 

[Shardik]

The limit for "cheap" is not an absolute. One man's cheap can be another man's expensive.

 

[Rip Topaz]

It's too bad that people do that. If my SX plays exactly the same as a Fodera Monarch, there are still a thousand reasons I can give why the Fodera's a nicer instrument. If they happened to sound exactly the same, there's 998 reasons it's still a nicer instrument. If I had the money, I'd own a Fodera and wouldn't ever regret it. It's a master-crafted instrument built by people that love the bass as much as the rest of us do.

I won't say that my SX plays anywhere near as well as my MIA Fender, but it still gets more playtime at the moment.

It's a solid bass in its own right, no comparison to the Fender but the tone works for what I'm using it for, so it goes out to play and the Fender has been staying home more and more.

Yes, the Fender is a nicer bass in just about every way. Doesn't matter.

 

[georgestrings]

There's also another issue to factor in - is a bass that costs $1,500 ten times better than a nearly identical bass that costs $150?

I'm sorry you were disappointed by your Fury. But I would point out that there are many here on TB that feel the Fury is the equal, if not better than, a MIA Fender Precision. It's not just me.

There is no question that the law of diminishing returns applys here - but better is still better, and many players are willing to spend significantly more for small gains in quality...

I'm not at all disappointed in my Fury - it's still a bargain for what I paid and what I received... However, I feel you do a disservice to potential buyers when you exagerate it's level of quality... From what I've seen, the people you cite "that feel the Fury is the equal, if not better than, a MIA Fender Precision" are all Fury owners, and not MIA Fender Precision owners - which is probably no coincidence...

It's just like the SX koolaid, or the Squier koolaid - I've owned all of them(SX, Squier, and now MIA Fury), and I do not agree with exagerated claims of their quality levels... They are certainly good enough to play in a professional setting, but don't make them out to be something they're not...


- georgestrings

 

[InternetAlias]

I'd like to note that even though there are still duds out there in most production lines, QC has gone way up since the 60s. This means that it's entirely possible to get an instrument that's playable, good sounding and good looking for 100$ (if lucky, even new!). However, saying that an SX neck compares with a fender quartersawn neck, that poly finish found in most cheap guitars is as good as oil finish on boutique basses, that foto quilt is as good as the real thing, that cheap agathis is as good as quality mahogany etc etc etc is nonsense. There should be quite a huge line of distinction between the 'minimum passable' and 'high quality' instrument.

 

[georgestrings]

I think some players need to justify spending more money on a bass.

Maybe so, but IMO what happens more often here at TB is people who can't or won't spend more make false claims in order to make themselves feel better about the gear they settle for...

I never try to "justify" my gear choices - to be honest, I couldn't care less what others think of them... I play the best gear I can reasonably afford, since I make money playing, and like to play nice stuff... I take issue with the "My Squier/SX/Fury is just as good as any MIA Fender BS - in other words, don't pee down my back and tell me it's raining, and we'll get along just fine...


- georgestrings

 

[smcd]

There is no question that the law of diminishing returns applys here - but better is still better, and many players are willing to spend significantly more for small gains in quality...

I'm not at all disappointed in my Fury - it's still a bargain for what I paid and what I received... However, I feel you do a disservice to potential buyers when you exagerate it's level of quality... From what I've seen, the people you cite "that feel the Fury is the equal, if not better than, a MIA Fender Precision" are all Fury owners, and not MIA Fender Precision owners - which is probably no coincidence...

It's just like the SX koolaid, or the Squier koolaid - I've owned all of them(SX, Squier, and now MIA Fury), and I do not agree with exagerated claims of their quality levels... They are certainly good enough to play in a professional setting, but don't make them out to be something they're not...


- georgestrings

I'd be very surprised if there was a Peavey Fury owner that wasn't/isn't a Fender Precision owner. I've owned 6 Precisions over the years ('65, '71, '72, '75, '88, '94). I have 2 left now. The areas where a Precision (US made, of course) is superior to the Fury are:
a. Paint. The Fender has a much nicer, deeper and more lustrous paint.
b. Wood. I've found that the physical appearance of the wood on Fender bodies, and especially the necks, are much nicer than the wood on the Fury line.
c. Pickguard and string tree. A Fender 3-ply pickguard is much nicer than the single ply guard used on the Fury. The Fury string tree is functional but cheesy looking.

After that, it's a tie. The electronics, bridge, and tuners are equal. The Peavey has a much slimmer, narrower neck than the Fender, which some like and others not. Sound is subjective, but to me, they both sound very good.


Now, if things like appearance are important to you, the Fender is your choice. I'm not immune to the appeal of that kind of thing. I have basses that sound ok, but look beautiful that I'll never sell for that reason. But if playability and sound are your only criteria, it's the Fury for the win.

 

[nortonrider]

I've got a hundred bucks in this bass and play it all of the time,
in fact..... I've got it on right now!

It's a cheap Chinese made silent bass (Sojing) that has both a 1/8 jack (for headphones) and a 1/4 xlr for plugging in to an amp.

It's pretty quick and simple to grab and play when sitting in front of the computer. Even easier than using the Fender Jazz and Tascam Bass Trainer.
Also, an added benefit is that I can walk around with it on, take it outside, etc.......

I've done quite a bit of work over the years "making it mine" and right now it has Fender Tapewounds and is tuned ADGC.

Cheap = better? I don't know, but it seems to be working for me, at least in this case.


(Speaking of cheap....... notice the digitech BP-50 pedal in the pic - maybe I'm just a cheapskate)
.

 

[georgestrings]

I'd be very surprised if there was a Peavey Fury owner that wasn't/isn't a Fender Precision owner. I've owned 6 Precisions over the years ('65, '71, '72, '75, '88, '94). I have 2 left now. The areas where a Precision (US made, of course) is superior to the Fury are:
a. Paint. The Fender has a much nicer, deeper and more lustrous paint.
b. Wood. I've found that the physical appearance of the wood on Fender bodies, and especially the necks, are much nicer than the wood on the Fury line.
c. Pickguard and string tree. A Fender 3-ply pickguard is much nicer than the single ply guard used on the Fury. The Fury string tree is functional but cheesy looking.

After that, it's a tie. The electronics, bridge, and tuners are equal. The Peavey has a much slimmer, narrower neck than the Fender, which some like and others not. Sound is subjective, but to me, they both sound very good.


Now, if things like appearance are important to you, the Fender is your choice. I'm not immune to the appeal of that kind of thing. I have basses that sound ok, but look beautiful that I'll never sell for that reason. But if playability and sound are your only criteria, it's the Fury for the win.

Based on the Fury I have on hand, the electronics, bridge, and tuners are also inferior to those of even a MIM Fender, let alone an MIA Fender... I will say that I'm impressed with the fretwork, though - I totally expected to get a level and dress job done to my Fury, but it isn't necessary at all - it plays great... I actually prefer the slimmer neck of the Fury, and agree that sound is subjective...

"But if playability and sound are your only criteria, it's the Fury for the win"

Sure, if you're basing that on "bang for the buck" - but if you're judging just on quality alone, there aren't many who would agree with your statement...


- georgestrings

 

[richntiff]

Uhm.... I hate to say this, but the $300-$500 club is the Cheap Bass Club. Any new bass under $500 is cheap.

Then call me cheap




Depends on whether you're talking new or used. I'd say very few new basses that have a street price under $500 will do everything for everyone. (99.999% is everyone)

Go ahead and think that if you'd like, but I believe you are incorrect.