Double Bass Cheap eBay bass not holding pitch

[AMJBASS]

Very likely it is just cheap machine heads. Why not just watch the machine after its been tuned to pitch to see if it is slipping. I have had this happen on inexpensive basses in the past. As others have said, ultimately its not really worth dealing with the short comings of cheap cheap basses.

 

[kurt ratering]

Nice.
How to win friends and influence people in eight posts or less.
Who'd you study with, Wayne Holmes?

ha!, but seriously, could the top be sinking alittle everytime it gets tuned?

 

[mje]

...My experience is that strings will stretch for several days when you first put them on. ...

Steel core strings don't stretch significantly, whether on guitar, banjo, or double bass. Once you take up the slack with a few tugs after installation, that's it. Beyond that, it's the instrument.

I'm guessing it's either the tailpiece, as one poster suggested, or the top is collapsing. Either way you'll find out soon enough when it runs out of cable or elasticity in the top ;-)

 

[Rocinante_x1]

i know what your problem is. Its a cheap ebay bass.

 

[MingusAmongUs]

Another possibility: bassbar coming unglued (although this usually manifests itself in a sudden and violent loosening rather than a gradual one)

 

[davpal]

Tornadobass - you wrote earlier (post #20) that the bass had been to a "good local luthier". I would suggest the owner bring the bass back to him and have it reevaluated. If this luthier cannot find the problem this time around find another one that understands basses....

 

[Herbie 80's]

There's a funny story in an old issue (although I guess those are the only kind now) of DOUBLE BASSIST, a collection of repair horror stories. Apparently some kid thought it would be great fun to continue "turning the key", just to see what would happen. Well what happened was that he got the soundpost to slam through the back and into his groin with enough force that the EMTs had to be called.

LOL. Oh man, that would suck!

@ Drurb, I guess the tuners wouldn't be the problem then? On a CCB it could be so many things. I know that some chinese basses are good, but it amazes me that some people fight that CCB's are good at all.

One of the many points of a good instrument is to make it easier to play, the harder it is to play, the more detrimental it is to achieve your ability and potential.

 

[Alex Scott]

 

[LEUllman]

The title of this thread looks exactly like something you'd read on "The Onion." (www.theonion.com)

 

[SplitNick]

ha!, but seriously, could the top be sinking alittle everytime it gets tuned?

This is what I was thinking, for I too was once enchanted by the low prices of Ebay, and yay I did purchase of the mechandise of the Orient, and lo, the plate of mine instrument was stricken with sinkage from an verily, verily, verily woeful amount of graduation, and there was much gnashing of teeth and wailing and I did wear sack cloth on my way to the village luthier where I was stripped of 800 shekels and shamed for mine ignorance.

 

[Rob Thompson]

So...umm.. now that the smoke has cleared, about that ebay bass...

I'm curious about what the problem is. I agree with davpal that you should have her take it to a different luthier if the first one can't figure out what's wrong.

I say definitely not the tuners. My vote is for a cheap plastic tailwire stretching. You say it stabilizes after sitting for a while then retuning? Here's a wild guess: could temperature be the culprit? Probably not, but thought I'd throw that out there. The way you describe the problem, it sounds a little bit like what I experience coming in from the MN cold with my poor bass. I think it usually goes sharp as it warms up though... Thoughts?

Tornadobass, let us know if you figure it out.

 

[pnut166]

Is the instrument going through a big change in temperature and / or humidity right before playing ?

 

[lutherio]

I purchased a used bass a few years ago that had the same problem. It turned out the bassbar had become detached from the top plate over most of its length and without its reinforcement, the bass was actually deforming under the string tension. Fortunately, this was fixable, and I've had no more tuning issues.

The bassbar runs most of the length of the top plate underneath the leg of the bridge under the E string. Take a look inside through the f-hole with a flashlight and an inspection mirror. If it is detached from the plate anywhere, loosen the strings. Do not try to bring the bass up to pitch as it could cause irreparable damage.
A competent luthier should be able to make the repair.

Hope this helps--good luck!

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Please keep this thread on the topic of the bass described in the OP. If you are a newbie to the world of double basses, you probably don't have much helpful diagnostic wisdom to add to this thread.

If you want to argue about whether buying a BSO (CCB) from ebay is a good idea, please do it in the "Smokey Joe on BSO's" thread.

 

[tornadobass]

The luthier involved fit the bridge and restrung the instrument but had not been asked about the intonation problem. We play on Mondays, but not this coming Monday, so it'll be a couple of weeks before I see that bass again.

Meanwhile, I'll ask the bassist to get that instrument to the shop while it's still holding together.

 

[smokey joe]

To put it simply....the bass gets tuned at the start of the rehearsal. Somewhere into the first piece, it has gone at least a half-step flat. Retuned, the pitch goes way low yet again within a few minutes...and repeats that over the next half hour or longer. By the end of rehearsal, it's close to holding its pitch, which makes me think that something is flexing during its down time and gets bent into a stable position over several retunings.

The problem is more than a matter of pitch tweaking. Further, the bass has been to a good local luthier who fit and thinned the uncut bridge that this CCB was delivered with. He also installed the strings.

This problem reminds me of the time I naively bought a set of Red-O-Ray gut strings before a big band New Year's gig and couldn't keep the instrument up to pitch for even one tune. ...except the bass in question has Helicores that tune easily on a healthy bass and hold their pitch once tuned.

Don't know much about bass but my violin needs to be out of the case and allowed to warmup about 20 minutes before tuning if I want it to remain in tune. No 2 instruments are alike so some may be prone to change more than others. Whatever the case I hope its not too serious.

 

[smokey joe]

Is the instrument going through a big change in temperature and / or humidity right before playing ?

He said he wouldn't see it again for 2 weeks? Speaking of temp and humid. I wonder if it is left in an unheated building, damp, or other conditions. It could be coming unglued. Heaven forbid if one left it laying on its side. I keep my wood airplane prop horizontal because if left vertical one end will draw moisture and become imbalanced. I have no reason not to believe a bass will draw moisture as well. I never leave it laying on its side for very long at a time.

 

[drurb]

The type of tuning issues that the bass in question is having fall well outside those resulting from temperature, humidity, and acclimatization issues. While all of those can certainly affect tuning and stability of tuning, none of them explains what's been reported with that bass. The bass in question seems to be suffering from something far more substantial and serious.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

Tornado do you know how this bass is treated day to day? Smoky Joe might be right if the hot/cold and wet/dry are extreme enough. I'm not sure about the unglued part but extremes with an "assumed" greenwood bass is enough for what you describe.
I know with gut strings being flat or sharp a whole step is not unheard of when going from different environments. It sometimes it takes about a half an hour of playing to acclimate (the physics of gut and silver windings mostly). The million dollar question is how does that translate to an unstable instrument with steel strings (the physics of green wood and steel). I'm guessing if the bass is left in a car all day before rehearsals it's possible.

-J

 

[drurb]

Tornado do you know how this bass is treated day to day? Smoky Joe might be right if the hot/cold and wet/dry are extreme enough. I'm not sure about the unglued part but extremes with an "assumed" greenwood bass is enough for what you describe.
I know with gut strings being flat or sharp a whole step is not unheard of when going from different environments. It sometimes it takes about a half an hour of playing to acclimate (the physics of gut and silver windings mostly). The million dollar question is how does that translate to an unstable instrument with steel strings (the physics of green wood and steel). I'm guessing if the bass is left in a car all day before rehearsals it's possible.

-J

Indeed. I should have clarified that I was referring to "normal" variations in temperature and humidity. Of course, if the instrument is subjected to wild and abusive swings, all sorts of strange things could happen. Still, I think based on what's been said, the bass in question has some serious issues. I've never heard of or experienced any problems with leaving a bass on its side in a room properly controlled for temperature and humidity. I have no reason to believe that there is sufficient asymmetry to produce a moisture imbalance under such circumstances. In fact, laying on its side might be preferred to standing up (top vs. bottom asymmetry) in that regard.