Chord extensions? Why are there exceptions?

[TheIndieKid]

It's commonly known that Maj11 chords are forbidden because of the harsh minor 9th interval between the 3rd and 4th. So why do actual Min9th chords not get a bad rap when the interval exists between the 2nd and 3rd? I have the same question about #11 chords.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

It's commonly known that Maj11 chords are forbidden because of the harsh minor 9th interval between the 3rd and 4th. So why do actual Min9th chords not get a bad rap when the interval exists between the 2nd and 3rd? I have the same question about #11 chords.

I suspect the answer lies somewhere between matching major melody notes with major chords, and minor melody notes with minor chords.

What do chords do? They harmonize the melody. How do they do that? By sharing some of the same notes found in the melody. If the melody and the harmonizing chord share some of the same notes they harmonize, aka sound good together.

Are the extra notes you are adding to the chord (extensions) also appear in the melody? If not you are just asking for trouble -- IMO.

The other guys will probably give a better answer to your question.....

 

[Whousedtoplay]

It's commonly known that Maj11 chords are forbidden because of the harsh minor 9th interval between the 3rd and 4th. So why do actual Min9th chords not get a bad rap when the interval exists between the 2nd and 3rd?

"maj11 chords are very rare due to the unpleasant dissonance created by the 11th clashing with the 3rd of the chord."

I have the same question about #11 chords.

..., therefore, people "invented the #11 chords. drool
(Think about Lydian.)

 

[Bob_Ross]

Short answer: Because it sounds good.

Slightly longer answer: Because folks rarely voice a minor 9th chord with the 9th (2nd) in a lower octave than the 3rd, so you rarely get "the harsh minor 9th interval" [sic] between those two notes. (Operative word being "rarely".) More often the 3rd is in the lower octave and the 9th above, and you get a far more consonant major 7th interval between them. Other times those two chord tones are voiced in the same octave so you get a piquant half-step interval between them...which, in the context of a minor 9th chord, doesn't sound nearly as "harsh" as one might fear.

Even longer tangential response: Irrespective of whether Maj11 chords are truly "forbidden" because of the harsh minor 9th interval between the 3rd and 4th (and I like @Whousedtoplay's edit that they are simply "rare"), you can combine the major 3rd and 4th in a chord...but A) you'll almost certainly want to voice the 3rd a major 7th (or more) higher than the 4th, or in the same octave, because in that context the minor 9th interval can definitely destroy the quality of the chord you're trying to present; and B) it's a bit disingenuous to refer to that chord as a "Maj11th" chord, because voiced thusly most ears will hear the major 3rd as an upper structure tension on top of a sus chord. I'd indicate it as an "N7sus4(add3)" if I werent explicitly notating the voicing.

 

[Groove Master]

Minor 9 interval, that's it. This interval is most dissonant sound in music and should be avoid within any chord except the dominant 7 (b9) by nature. That is the reason there is a #11 in a major chord. That's why we should take out the fifth in a dominant b13...etc...

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Just a thought. Safe bass line notes follow the chord's notes. The songwriter decided to use that specific chord because it had some of the melody notes in its makeup. If the treble clef and bass clef have some of the same notes -- that gives us harmony. That is one of the reasons the songwriter placed it in the song. That chord then has one more function. It will help move the verse along in the ole rest, tension, climax and back to rest chord progression movement most chord progressions follow. The chord does two things; provide movement and harmony.

Like melody notes in the treble clef and bass clef bring harmony and will sound good. Then we start seeing about movement.

Old wives tail…. skip over 2's and 4's - use them as passing notes, but don't hang around on them in your bass line. Why? About the only chords that will have a 2 or 4 in it's make up are the sus and add chords. I don't see a lot of sus or add chords in what I play. So --- a 2 or 4 is going to clash with what I play. Passing notes would be OK, just leave them passing.

The 9 is a 2 in the next octave. The 11 is a 4 in the next octave. So we good ole boys stay away from the 2s, 4s, 9s or 11ths.

If the melody line has them then the chord can also have them, and if that happens your bass line can have them...… other than that stay away.