Chords - Scott BL's only talks about 7ths?

[Robsco]

Firstly I just bought a Looper (Boss RC-3 to be precise) and my god it is hands-down the best pedal on my board!

Anywho, I wanted to lay down some chords, then practice stuff over them.

So I looked into chords, and Scott from Scotts Bass Lessons only seems to talk about 7th's, yet Mark from TalkingBass shows the triads (major/minor).

It feels like there's something subtle going on here.

Are the 7th's just more of a Jazz thing?

Scott doesn't show a triad chord at all, not even a mention. Are they really not used that much?

 

[ProfFrink]

I've been wondering this myself. It's a bit strange indeed.

FWIW, to do a triad, you can simply remove the 7th, and just play the root and the 3rd, because the 5th doesn't really help much (except diminished where the 5th is the crux of the chord), so a straightforward simplification of what Scott's showing will get you 99% of the way there.

 

[Robsco]

I think Mark (from talkingbass) shows triads with the octave, so just shuffling the 7th up a fret, but only if you're high enough up the neck.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

......Anywho, I wanted to lay down some chords, then practice stuff over them.

So I looked into chords, and Scott from Scotts Bass Lessons only seems to talk about 7th's, yet Mark from TalkingBass shows the triads (major/minor).

It feels like there's something subtle going on here. Are the 7th's just more of a Jazz thing?

Subtle yes. The dominant seven chord (C7) is used quite a lot in country, pop, rock, etc. Adding the b7th to a C chord it now wants to resolve to the root RIGHT NOW where just a plain C does not feel the need to resolve to the tonic chord, like a C7 would.

Cmaj7 is a major chord with a natural 7 added. As mentioned above it does not feel the same need to resolve to the root and is used for the sound it gives or if you need a natural 7 to harmonize the melody notes. Long story.

Cm7 is a minor seventh chord and would function as a C7 if you are in a minor progression.

Long story short.
C = 1-3-5
Cmaj7 = 1-3-5-7
Cm7 = 1-b3-5-b7.

You mentioned jazz. Jazz seems to fill out the chord by playing more of the notes of the chord. Most of what I do deals with roots and I'll add the 5 and or 8 in my bass line if I have the time before the music goes off and leaves me - and it sounds right.

Good luck.

 

[locisbrelm]

If you get into Scott's academy, there's a chords course that has more than enough information for you

 

[Robsco]

bit of a side-question, is there a good resource for finding out more things like "this wants to resolve to that"?

 

[Robsco]

I looked at his course, that's why I asked, all he plays are 7ths for the first 4-5 videos.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

bit of a side-question, is there a good resource for finding out more things like "this wants to resolve to that"?

OK here the use of Roman numbers and Arabic numbers can be thought of wanting the same, i.e. the 1 note in the scale and the I root chord in the progression kinda want to move the same way. So...

• The 1 note or I chord are the tonal center of the scale or chord progression and as such can move anywhere it wants to as it is the tonal center of the scale or progression. I'm going to use chords for the following examples...
• The ii chord is minor and the sub-dominant chord in the progression. It's task in life is to move to a dominant chord. Example ii-V.
• The iii chord is minor and the median chord in the progression, thus it is used as a lead somewhere chord.
• The IV chord is major and like the ii minor it wants to move to a dominant chord. As they want the same thing they can sub for each other. ii-V-I or IV-V-I
• The V chord is the dominant chord that wants to move to the I tonic chord. Adding a b7 making a V7 increases it's want to do this right now.
• The vi is a minor chord and likes to be drug by the iii. The 3's and 6's normally work together to lead somewhere. i.e. iii-vi-ii-V7-I
• The seven we have talked about.
• The 8th is just another I in a higher octave.

Good luck.

 

[Robsco]

Thanks, just what I was after. Does this in any way also work for the pure intervals of the scale, ie, not the chords built from them.

e.g. in C Major, would playing the single notes: D-G-C "make sense" as a little snippet? using the same rules as above?

 

[Persona87]

Thanks, just what I was after. Does this in any way also work for the pure intervals of the scale, ie, not the chords built from them.

e.g. in C Major, would D-G-C "make sense" as a little snippet? using the same rules as above?

Yeah, that's called a ii-V-I progression. It's the most common progression in jazz music, and can be expanded into another common movement, the iii-VI-ii-V-I.

To answer the original question, jazz is based off of the seventh chord. There are three common triads: major, minor, and diminished (okay, there's also augmented, but they don't come up very frequently in my experience). Adding the seventh creates more types of chords: Major seventh, dominant seventh, minor seventh, half-diminished, fully diminished, and minor-major seventh (again, there are other four-note chords, but these are the most common basic chords that use a root, third, fifth, and seventh). All of these chords "function" differently; that is, they have different jobs in music and sound distinctly different from each other.

Chord tones past the seventh (ninths, elevenths, thirteenths) and alterations of those notes (sharp nines, flat thirteenths) add complexity and musical "color" to the sound, but they don't change the function of the chord. A Cmaj7 (C E G B), Cmaj9 (C E G B D), and Cmaj13 (C E G B D A) all have the same function: they sound like a C major, just with more color. A Dmin11 (D F A C E G) still sounds like a D minor, a G13 (G B D F A E) still sounds like a G dominant, etc.

Jazz theory goes much deeper than this, but I hope that it clarifies some things for you.

 

[mambo4]

7th chords are not "just for jazz" by any stretch - but jazz gives you excellent practical examples of their use.
The flat 7th especially in dominant 7th or minor 7th chords is used in many styles beyond jazz.

For a bassist it is useful to consider the 3 an 4 note arpeggios not as chords but as useful maps of the tones you should favor when playing linearly. In that sense the 7th becomes more legit, even when a triad is what your supporting. again, that flat 7th is ubiquitous in many styles of bass line so it's well worth giving attention to.

bit of a side-question, is there a good resource for finding out more things like "this wants to resolve to that"?

to supplement Malcom's excellent reply,
One way to look at how chords resolve is to place them on the cycle of 4ths/5ths.
Basically every chord "wants to resolve" to a chord a fifth below it.
We know that V7-I is the strongest resolution, and V & I will always be next to each other on the circle.
ii resolves to V because (in part) they are also adjacent.
The cycle of 5ths can be applied to all chords in chords in a key:
vii - iii - vi - ii -V - I - (IV).
Play those arpeggios in order and the pattern will immediately sound familiar.

Additionally any one of those chords can be preceded by a Dominant 7th chord a fifth above
(from outside of the key) These are called Secondary dominants and they happen all the time.

In classical harmony these resolutions are called Cadences and there are 4 basic types:
Authentic Candence : V- I
Half-Cadence : ends on V not I
Deceptive Cadence: V - vi
Plagal("church") Cadence: IV- V (other way around the cycle of 5ths)

In an abstract way, there really are only two kinds of harmonic motion:
Dominant or Subdominant, One direction around the cycle or the other, towards the I or towards the V.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Thanks, just what I was after. Does this in any way also work for the pure intervals of the scale, ie, not the chords built from them.

e.g. in C Major, would playing the single notes: D-G-C "make sense" as a little snippet? using the same rules as above?

Kinda, what we are after is harmony Scale notes are used most of the time for the melody. That is scale notes placed in melodic phrases.

Bass clef is normally used for harmony, ie. notes of the active chord, i.e. 1-3-5-7 played in rhythm to the beat or groove this specific song is asking for. What I'm having trouble getting to is that chord tones normally provide harmony and scale notes normally provide melody. Long story...

Harmony happens when the song writer places chords in the chord progression that contain some of the notes found in the active melody. It is the sharing of notes between the treble clef or melody and the bass clef that provide harmony.

When that happens both the treble and bass clef harmonize each other, i.e. sound good together.

The songwriter has already figured all this out for us. All we need do is identify the active chord, by ear, or by sheet music and play notes of that chord in time (to the beat) with the rest of the music. I listen for the drummer's kick drum for the rhythm or time signature for this song, i.e. 4/4 or 3/4, time then lock with the drummer's beat.

Right at first a bass line of the active chord's roots and fives, to the beat, will get you asked back.

A google on harmony may clear some of this up for you.


Happy trails.

 

[saabfender]

Are the 7th's just more of a Jazz thing?

Are they really not used that much?

I've never heard such an absurd thing. Where did you hear that? Chords don't have a genre. They are abstract musical constructs.

As far as voice leading, you are correct that this is something to pay attention to. The best way to sort it out is to learn to play chords on a piano.

I would keep a safe distance from instrument-specific music theory materials.

 

[DoctorZee]

bit of a side-question, is there a good resource for finding out more things like "this wants to resolve to that"?

I'm sure someone can explain this better, but here's what I know.

If you're talking about chords resolving to other chords in a progression, there are several common "cadences" that come from western classical music but are very common in rock/pop/jazz as well.

• Authentic cadence: V-I (think of a blues turnaround, for example)
• Plagal cadence: IV-I
• Imperfect cadences: ii-V, I-V, or IV-V (these sound like they're leading up to something else, they want a little more. For example, a really common cadence in jazz is ii-V-I. It begins imperfectly, but then resolving back to the I makes it "perfect")
• Deceptive cadence: V-vi (your brain expects to hear V-I, but you go to the relative minor chord instead.)

But individual notes can also want to resolve places. That's typically when the note is a scale tone (not a chord tone) over the underlying harmony. Like a 2nd, 4th, 6th, or 7th scale degree. These create musical tension because they're not in the chord, and your brain wants to hear that tension released. Typically you resolve that note down/up one whole or half step into a chord tone.

 

[Groove Master]

Firstly I just bought a Looper (Boss RC-3 to be precise) and my god it is hands-down the best pedal on my board!

Anywho, I wanted to lay down some chords, then practice stuff over them.

So I looked into chords, and Scott from Scotts Bass Lessons only seems to talk about 7th's, yet Mark from TalkingBass shows the triads (major/minor).

It feels like there's something subtle going on here.

Are the 7th's just more of a Jazz thing?

Scott doesn't show a triad chord at all, not even a mention. Are they really not used that much?

The 7th's are very important to help define the function of a chord. Triads are great but they are incomplete when it is time to analyse a chord progression or a chord function. When you encounter C chord going to F there are several options regarding who's the I but in general only one of these can be the I and without the 7th's or the invisible 7 it is not as clear.

 

[DoctorZee]

The 7th's are very important to help define the function of a chord. Triads are great but they are incomplete when it is time to analyse a chord progression or a chord function. When you encounter C chord going to F there are several options regarding who's the I but in general only one of these can be the I and without the 7th's or the invisible 7 it is not as clear.

Yep. And a really clear example in the bass world is that if I want to walk down C-(X)-A-G-F to get there, whether I play B (Cmaj7) or Bb (C7) essentially defines the key of the tune, absent any other information.

 

[DoctorZee]

There's also a great quote that I've heard attributed to Sting: "The guitarist can try to play a C major chord all he wants, but if I decide to play an A, suddenly he's playing an Am7."

 

[saabfender]

I've been wondering this myself. It's a bit strange indeed.

FWIW, to do a triad...

 

[Rock Salad]

Or sometimes we use both too, which the b7 is the stronger usually but not always.

 

[Rock Salad]

Make your own darn chords up. Then learn what they are.