Chords with 2 and 9 and 11 etc

[Pacman]

The octave in which the notes are sounded is irrelevant. It's still considered a 9th, not a 2nd. C2 is not technically a chord symbol (although I've seen it used, and it usually is meant as a Csus2).

 

[Phil Smith]

Hmm, so the function of 9 in there is being a 3rd from the 7th, and not being a 2nd to the root?

So does that somehow gives some limitations to what we can do with the 9th? Let say, can we have a line which consist just of the root and the 9th? Or like the 9th must be preceded by a 5 or 7?

Remember Bruce said stacked thirds that's how the notation works. 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 are all the notes from a major scale C E G B D F A which would be a CMaj13 chord, a C major chord with all of the unaltered extensions from the scale.

 

[Chris A]

I've always thought of it as 9th having a 3rd in the chord. If it's a 2nd, it replaces the 3rd. So a 9th would be root, 3,5,7 and 9. and a 2nd would just be root, 2, and 5.


Chris A.

 

[kiwlm]

Ok, see if I can sum this up.

C9 is actually just like C but with a 2nd added, the reason why its stated as C9 and not C2 is because of chord stacking theory.

Let me post up another question while we are at this:
If you hear (not read) this three notes
C D#/Eb G

Would you think that its a C#9 or C minor?

A #9 actually refers to the Minor 3rd right? And since the 3rd determines the tonality, how would I know if its a 3rd of a #9?

Well, I assume that if the piece is written down, I can determine it based on whether its notd as D# or Eb, but if just say I do not have the notation of the piece?

 

[Pacman]

Ok, see if I can sum this up.

C9 is actually just like C but with a 2nd added, the reason why its stated as C9 and not C2 is because of chord stacking theory.

No. C9 is just like a C7 with the 9 (or 2) added. That's a C dominant 7 (with a Bb)

Let me post up another question while we are at this:
If you hear (not read) this three notes
C D#/Eb G

Would you think that its a C#9 or C minor?

A #9 actually refers to the Minor 3rd right? And since the 3rd determines the tonality, how would I know if its a 3rd of a #9?

Well, I assume that if the piece is written down, I can determine it based on whether its notd as D# or Eb, but if just say I do not have the notation of the piece?

Good question. C minor is the answer. Why? Well, boil it down to the fact that the sound that really makes a C7#9 is the tension between the natural 3rd and the raised 9. It really needs both tones to give it that quality.

 

[Phil Smith]

Let me post up another question while we are at this:
If you hear (not read) this three notes
C D#/Eb G

Would you think that its a C#9 or C minor?

Anyone that can hear would never hear that combination of notes and think C#9. A minor chord doesn't have the major quality, that's the first difference. A minor chord also doesn't have the dominant seventh quality either i.e. a tritone 3rd and 7th contained in the chord which gives the chord its signature dissonance. I suggest getting your hands on a piano or keyboard and play the chords so you can hear why they are what they are.

 

[kiwlm]

sorry for cross posting, but my main confusion is here:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67346
(I guess it din get a lot of attention since its in the Tabulature Thread)

Generalized, if a melody is played using the notes within the C minor pentatonic scale, what notes can I play? It seems to me that the C minor pentatonic scales fits both the C Minor and C7#9.

At first, I would have straight away think that its C Minor, but then someone mentioned C7#9, which I felt that is an effort to modify the C chord to "contain" the notes of the Minor Pentatonic, namely flatting the 7th and sharping the 9th.

Or does it matter at all? As long as both me and the guitarist agrees on C minor or C7#9?