• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

CITES wait times at the Canadian border

Mezcalito

Mezcalito

Guest
Feb 1, 2015
4
2
#1
About six weeks ago I placed an order through my local Long & McQuade for a new bass... probably my first new instrument in like 20 years, which makes this situation all the more frustrating. The bass I wanted would have to be ordered in from Fender and would take ~15 days to arrive. OK, fine, a little wait will just add to the anticipation.

After about a month of being strung along (“should be in this week or next,” etc.), I went in today and was told it was likely held up at the border due to CITES and that they had no idea when it was due in. Apparently they have a lot of frustrated customers atm dealing with similar issues.

I get that it’s not the store’s fault, and there’s nothing I can do other than wait it out. and I certainly don’t disagree with the principle of having strong regulations in place when it comes to protecting endangered species. but I'm wondering if anyone with retail experience can shed some light on what the process of importing a RW bass into Canada entails, and how much of a wait I'm actually in for.

thanks for any insight you guys can provide. the irony is that I prefer maple fretboards, but the model I wanted was only available in RW. lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlueAliceOasis and Garret Graves
#5
Mezcalito said:
...I certainly don’t disagree with the principle of having strong regulations in place when it comes to protecting endangered species...
Click to expand...


I definitely don't disagree when it comes to real endagered species either, but this is my take after doing a lot of research on the subject...

I think it's really a shame that CITES didn't take the time out to focus the regulations on the industries and particularly the countries that are actually to blame for the loss of RARE rosewood, and not just throw a blanket over everyone in the world who might use any rosewood. Most species of rosewood aren't even close to being endangered, but the powers that be simply didn't want to continue to do any more of the work involved to distinguish between Brazilian and other rare rosewoods, and the several common, non-endagered rosewoods (Indian for example). So CITES just carelessly lumped all rosewood together, without any concern for the industries who will potentially lose business and millions of dollars for no good reason. The age of the rosewood doesn't matter to CITES either - as if some Brazilian rosewood that was cut down 5 or 6 decades ago and used on a 1962 P Bass has any affect whatsoever on the species or the environment currently.

The modern guitar industry's use of common rosewood doesn't even make a slight difference in the worldwide consumption of endagered rosewood. Foreign furniture makers who illegally use millions of board feet of Brazilian rosewood to make tables, cabinets, and other large pieces are the reason that CITES exists. The tiny amount (of almost solely non-endagered rosewood) that is used in guitar making nowadays should have obviously been exempted from these blanket regulations, which are needlessly affecting millions of musicians and guitar industry business owners thoughout the world. Unfortunately, the CITES officials didn't take the time out to actually make thoughtful decisions about the industries and the several common species of rosewood that are affected by this (despite many attempts from the guitar industry to persude them that they were going way too far). But it was just easier for the CITES officials to ban all rosewood. That was thoughtless and lazy of them. As far as I'm concerned, what CITES should have done if they were honestly interested in our environment and actually protecting endagered species (not to mention protecting fair commerce in the world), would be to crack down on furniture and materials being exported out of South America specifically, and leave the rest of the world alone. Ok sorry, rant over.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tfer, Wavy, jazz3625tonic and 16 others
#6
I was reading on a different forum that there were containers full of instruments at the ports waiting to be released for at least 5 months due to the CITE$ regulations.

Now imagine the same thing happening at Canada's border where there is a backlog of instruments that have to be processed. Yours will be at the back of the line because it doesn't matter where it originated from, just that it has to be processed in the order it is received.
 
#7
But if the shop ordered the bass directly from Fender (or their Canadian Distributor), then they should have been well aware of the new CITES regulations, and should have made sure that all the necessary paperwork was in place...

Unless there is an issue with the people checking the paperwork either side of the border, which is holding things up...

Not that I'm in any way suggesting that a Government Body is ill prepared for new International Legislation...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Garret Graves, RRR and Jeff Scott
#8
i had some issues, non cites related, but you might give it a thought.

My first five string I ever bought was my Fender American Standard Jazz. I had a good friend that worked at a local music store, not an itty bitty place (it was one of three chain stores in the state) and I wanted to buy local to support my area business, so I paid for the bass and ordered it from them.

A month goes by, and I haven't heard anything from them, so I call, and it's on order, should be shipped any day.. Another two weeks pass, I call, same story. After two and a half months go by, I call my friend and I'm like, what is up with this bass? I can tell he isn't happy, but he says he has been told the smaller stores aren't a priority for production runs, and they were at the mercy of Fender at the moment waiting for them to build the bass and ship it, so I told them to cancel the order. I then went down to the local Guitar Center, they didn't have one in stock, but I could order one if I paid for it. I wanted them to ship it to the store first to try before I bought, but they wouldn't do it, and it rubbed me the wrong way for some reason, so I just went home and ordered it from Musicians Friend. I'd had very good luck with dealing with returns with them, so I figured if I didn't like it, the return would be easy.

Long story short, the bass got to my house in three days, was perfectly set up, and was a "one in a million" bass from fender, as it was utterly perfect and the best sounding jazz I've ever owned.

My point being is the bigger mail order stores get the priority from Fender, at least as I was told, more then likely have the stock already in surplus, and will quickly ship. I would have preferred to buy locally, but they couldn't deliver, sorry for the pun.

Your bass might very well be hung up with cites, or it might just be in the same situation the small store was in when I bought my bass, and you are just getting a little lip service. Not saying that is the case, just something to think about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aaronious
#9
Skybone said:
But if the shop ordered the bass directly from Fender (or their Canadian Distributor), then they should have been well aware of the new CITES regulations, and should have made sure that all the necessary paperwork was in place...

Unless there is an issue with the people checking the paperwork either side of the border, which is holding things up...

Not that I'm in any way suggesting that a Government Body is ill prepared for new International Legislation...
Click to expand...

The company that has their name on all the instruments waiting in shipping containers are well aware of the new CITE$ regulations, it is the people who enforce the laws do not have a grasp on them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pcake
#10
5544 said:
The company that has their name on all the instruments waiting in shipping containers are well aware of the new CITE$ regulations, it is the people who enforce the laws do not have a grasp on them.
Click to expand...

Far be it from me to insinuate anything of the sort...

Skybone said:
Unless there is an issue with the people checking the paperwork either side of the border, which is holding things up...

Not that I'm in any way suggesting that a Government Body is ill prepared for new International Legislation...
Click to expand...
 
#11
JGbassman said:
i had some issues, non cites related, but you might give it a thought.

My first five string I ever bought was my Fender American Standard Jazz. I had a good friend that worked at a local music store, not an itty bitty place (it was one of three chain stores in the state) and I wanted to buy local to support my area business, so I paid for the bass and ordered it from them.

A month goes by, and I haven't heard anything from them, so I call, and it's on order, should be shipped any day.. Another two weeks pass, I call, same story. After two and a half months go by, I call my friend and I'm like, what is up with this bass? I can tell he isn't happy, but he says he has been told the smaller stores aren't a priority for production runs, and they were at the mercy of Fender at the moment waiting for them to build the bass and ship it, so I told them to cancel the order. I then went down to the local Guitar Center, they didn't have one in stock, but I could order one if I paid for it. I wanted them to ship it to the store first to try before I bought, but they wouldn't do it, and it rubbed me the wrong way for some reason, so I just went home and ordered it from Musicians Friend. I'd had very good luck with dealing with returns with them, so I figured if I didn't like it, the return would be easy.

Long story short, the bass got to my house in three days, was perfectly set up, and was a "one in a million" bass from fender, as it was utterly perfect and the best sounding jazz I've ever owned.

My point being is the bigger mail order stores get the priority from Fender, at least as I was told, more then likely have the stock already in surplus, and will quickly ship. I would have preferred to buy locally, but they couldn't deliver, sorry for the pun.

Your bass might very well be hung up with cites, or it might just be in the same situation the small store was in when I bought my bass, and you are just getting a little lip service. Not saying that is the case, just something to think about.
Click to expand...

Just pointing out he ordered it through one of the biggest MI retail chains in CA, so not a small outfit.:thumbsup:
 
  • Like
Reactions: murphy, Pbassmanca, pcake and 2 others
#12
I know of someone locally here that ordered a Bongo 6 and the Cites stuff held it up by at least couple of months or more. Not much you can do, if it's got rosewood and isn't here already you're going to wait. The thing is, is that the store cannot tell you when because they just don't know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PillO
#14
JGbassman said:
i had some issues, non cites related, but you might give it a thought.

My first five string I ever bought was my Fender American Standard Jazz. I had a good friend that worked at a local music store, not an itty bitty place (it was one of three chain stores in the state) and I wanted to buy local to support my area business, so I paid for the bass and ordered it from them.

A month goes by, and I haven't heard anything from them, so I call, and it's on order, should be shipped any day.. Another two weeks pass, I call, same story. After two and a half months go by, I call my friend and I'm like, what is up with this bass? I can tell he isn't happy, but he says he has been told the smaller stores aren't a priority for production runs, and they were at the mercy of Fender at the moment waiting for them to build the bass and ship it, so I told them to cancel the order. I then went down to the local Guitar Center, they didn't have one in stock, but I could order one if I paid for it. I wanted them to ship it to the store first to try before I bought, but they wouldn't do it, and it rubbed me the wrong way for some reason, so I just went home and ordered it from Musicians Friend. I'd had very good luck with dealing with returns with them, so I figured if I didn't like it, the return would be easy.

Long story short, the bass got to my house in three days, was perfectly set up, and was a "one in a million" bass from fender, as it was utterly perfect and the best sounding jazz I've ever owned.

My point being is the bigger mail order stores get the priority from Fender, at least as I was told, more then likely have the stock already in surplus, and will quickly ship. I would have preferred to buy locally, but they couldn't deliver, sorry for the pun.

Your bass might very well be hung up with cites, or it might just be in the same situation the small store was in when I bought my bass, and you are just getting a little lip service. Not saying that is the case, just something to think about.
Click to expand...
Just for the record, L&M is a national chain with a central warehouse and in-house financing...hardly the "little guy" - at least in Canadian terms.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pbassmanca, JGbassman and TolerancEJ
#18
I had to special order a BTB1806 from them this past March - absolutely filthy with Rosewood :) It was obviously at the warehouse already, and took less than 2 weeks. They DO know whether the item is in stock - I highly doubt they can forsee border issues though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PillO
#19
I already had a self imposed no international sales rule, now thanks to CITES, I have a no international purchase rule too. If it ain't here in the US already, I don't need it. 'MURICA

Seriously though, how bad is this for companies that use a lot of exotic woods, like Warwick? Is the coveted wenge on the CITES list?
 
#20
levis76 said:
I already had a self imposed no international sales rule, now thanks to CITES, I have a no international purchase rule too. If it ain't here in the US already, I don't need it. 'MURICA

Seriously though, how bad is this for companies that use a lot of exotic woods, like Warwick? Is the coveted wenge on the CITES list?
Click to expand...
It's not currently on the cites list but is considered to be under threat, with availability down by 50% from 3 generations ago. It comes from west Africa.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back