yeah if you haven't played with a balanced set before, especially on a 6er; you need to give that a try. My basses have never set up better, than they do with Fodera strings. The B in particular, feels better than any other B I have used and keeps better note definition as you fret higher notes. and the way that Fodera strings vibrate feels more controlled than some other strings I have used.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Clanky B string.
- Thread starter spanndrew
- Start date
I would try moving your hand closer to bridge first. That's what I had to do. Move it above the bridge pickup if it's not already. It would be the simplest/quickest/cheapest solution if it works.
I'm using the dunlop extra bright nickel set. I don't believe they are balanced.
so if it happens when you don't pluck, do you mean hammerons and pulloffs? Hammering on is always going to clank on a low B with low action, because the string vibration is mostly vertical. pull off, less so, but again, technique matters.
I think it resonates for itself from the resonance through body and other strings. You should raise it, or change it out. Do not use open core or taperered b-string no matter what they say. "clank" is an elusive word. Since soundcloud exists today, this thread would have another optional smiley or emoticon just as this "THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PICS" but instead "THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT SOUND".
So there.
I've always had problems damping properly ANY b-string on any 5 string bass. I e it rumbles about from the sheer vibration from the other strings, as it has low tension. On Dingwalls and fan frets basses the problem ain't that big. But they do "brummel" about anyway. Now, what has dawned to me is that my thumb resting on the b as a thumb guide or as a damper isn't enough. You hit a harmonic node with the thumb and it still "rings". I e have to push the b-string down so much as create a steep angle before it turns silent completely. With all other strings I have not had this problem. I thought I was out of my mind, but then I contacted a Piano repairman who said that this damping phenomena on the pianos bass strings are the same. The dampers are wider, and has a brass counterweight, just as well as they are place further INWARDS along the string. Otherwise they can't dampen the strings properly. The dampers would have too low mass. So I wasn't totally out there...
So there.
I've always had problems damping properly ANY b-string on any 5 string bass. I e it rumbles about from the sheer vibration from the other strings, as it has low tension. On Dingwalls and fan frets basses the problem ain't that big. But they do "brummel" about anyway. Now, what has dawned to me is that my thumb resting on the b as a thumb guide or as a damper isn't enough. You hit a harmonic node with the thumb and it still "rings". I e have to push the b-string down so much as create a steep angle before it turns silent completely. With all other strings I have not had this problem. I thought I was out of my mind, but then I contacted a Piano repairman who said that this damping phenomena on the pianos bass strings are the same. The dampers are wider, and has a brass counterweight, just as well as they are place further INWARDS along the string. Otherwise they can't dampen the strings properly. The dampers would have too low mass. So I wasn't totally out there...
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Well, the problem is if I fret a note it rings out. It comes milliseconds before the note is plucked, and can be heard. The same sound can be heard if hammering on. I'm just going to record a video and audio and post it to save you guys time, I appreciate the insight.
I
I'm going to post some audio and video this evening. If not those types if strings, what do you recommend?
The problem with those thick B-strings, is that if they're tapered or open core, chances (or risks) are that the bridge saddle can't be set high enough for setting the action on that string properly. I e it always will depend on how the bass is made from the start on and especially the design of the bridge. Also, it is the same with strings that has red silk wrappings around the end of the strings. It may protrude over the saddle or the bridges on their speaking length so to speak.
Now, here comes the real culprit: When using tapered strings (any not just the B) it can be such unfortunate that the bridge saddles intonation point will be exactly at the point of when the taper hits a thicker gauge. Exactly at that point, and thus, the string wont reside properly seated on the saddle. In order to buck this, you must move the saddle forward or backward throwing intonation out of the window. It all depends how much of the string carries on BEHIND that point. I e, some basses has "body through" insert of strings, some just and inch behind the saddle bridge when the ball end is fix, and some goes way back. It all depends.
If you use ANY string that has a set gauge all the way through, it's not that "hit or miss" setting that comes into play. For example Jim Dunlop has a special signature 5 string set (Robert Truillijo) with NON TAPER B-string. But the rest are. For a reason.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
- - - - - -
Since you've told us very little about your bass, or what pickups you use it can be another problem, but I think it is a last straw and a bit far fetched. Since I've told you about the loose and sloppy b-string on all basses, and that those are more "prone-to-drone", the b-string can be the one string that is affected by Magnetic String Pull from the pickup that is set TOO CLOSE to the string(s). So, when you play and it starts to "rattle" or "rumble about" it may be just in the threshold point of startin to draw itself to the pole piece and touch it, because the magnet actually pulls the string towards it. But as the string oscillates, it hits the pole piece just once in a while. Try lowering the pickup(s) just once to see if the clonk goes away! If it doesn't, well then, turn them back up again.
I always encountered this when mixing direct bass lines when someone else are playing especially P basses, or PJ bassses. Fender Precision or Jazz basses, with a pickup set downwards the string, i e a neck pickup. Always, when they finger any string, the initial attack is always clanking the pole piece (because of the way the finger pick with their fingers downard and up instead of sideways), and when played dynamically and aggresively that clank is a nuisance and trouble to get rid of. The problem is that it is not heard in any tube amp with warm distortion or something like that because it is "interpreted" by the amp as a percussive thud instead. Which may be very useful and musically fit. But the signal from the line box direct fed into the mixer, it is a nuisance and annoying clonk. You dig in with your fingers so much so that you actually let the string - very briefly - touch the pole piece of the pickup. This can mostly be remedied with moving up to a thicker gauge. Or set the pickups a bit low. But setting that pickup lower, will usually mean that they have no resting place for their thumbs because that space left will be too narrow (at the top of the pickup shell). So then, you'll just have to baby the strings while playing, compromising and sacrificing your dynamic content.
Last edited:
If I had my best qualified guess, it's the combination of too highly set pickups (too close to the string) and - now a bit controversial and flame bit - playing technique.
I've encountered too many people who uses a rest finger stroke on all the rest of the strings, expect the lowest one. Since there's no adjacent string left to rest your finger at, on a 4 string E-string, or a 5 string B-string you TEND TO always start the attack of the string where you place the finger ON TOP OF THE string and move the finger downwards towards the pickup shell, so THE PICKUP SHELL STOPS THE MOVEMENT. You rest the string on the pickup instead. Which has some implications. Because people doesn't want the body to stop the motion, it is too far away.
This is mainly the reason why I've stopped loaning or borrowing out my bass guitar to people of shaky technique. At the end of their playing, they've always ripped up the pickup screws on the pickups bass end because they rest the fingers there with a force, and causes the spring under the pickup to move downards and then when the spring "jumps up" again, it rips the screw from its threads (actually the pickups gets pressed down first and then with its weight touches the head of the screw from underneath with greater force), and slowly erodes the wood, and all of a sudden the pickup is loose and can't be screwed back again, without having to refill the hole with a - say - toothpick and glue and then re-creating those threads. And when that pickup is loose, during playing, you bet that a huge clank or clonk is heard!
Maybe that is your problem? Check if the pickup moves by turning the bass upside down, pickups facing the floor!
That's why I am pretty sure a lot of people plays with a rest stroke there. But not rest strokes with the strings stopping it, but the actual pickup. Bad conduct and bad technique. And of course, people won't move their picking/plucking area to a spot that is not exactly above any pickup because they want the timbre and tone from just that one sweet spot. I've solved this with silicion tubes instead of springs and metal thread inserts.
- - - -
FWIW I think it's bass player Nathan Navarro, that has placed a special "dummy" pickup shell of wood, or something that makes him play with rest strokes, so a wooden plank underneath the strings stops the fingers from excess motion. It looks like and extra pickup but it isn't. Of course, the wood plank is placed under the sweet spot where he gets the best tone. He doesn't rest fingers ever on any pickup.
Check the background picture of this site (his YT channel)... However, the flip side to this must be that inhibits the funk, pop, and thumb and slap playing on the bass... at least in that area!
Nathan Navarro - YouTube
I've encountered too many people who uses a rest finger stroke on all the rest of the strings, expect the lowest one. Since there's no adjacent string left to rest your finger at, on a 4 string E-string, or a 5 string B-string you TEND TO always start the attack of the string where you place the finger ON TOP OF THE string and move the finger downwards towards the pickup shell, so THE PICKUP SHELL STOPS THE MOVEMENT. You rest the string on the pickup instead. Which has some implications. Because people doesn't want the body to stop the motion, it is too far away.
This is mainly the reason why I've stopped loaning or borrowing out my bass guitar to people of shaky technique. At the end of their playing, they've always ripped up the pickup screws on the pickups bass end because they rest the fingers there with a force, and causes the spring under the pickup to move downards and then when the spring "jumps up" again, it rips the screw from its threads (actually the pickups gets pressed down first and then with its weight touches the head of the screw from underneath with greater force), and slowly erodes the wood, and all of a sudden the pickup is loose and can't be screwed back again, without having to refill the hole with a - say - toothpick and glue and then re-creating those threads. And when that pickup is loose, during playing, you bet that a huge clank or clonk is heard!
Maybe that is your problem? Check if the pickup moves by turning the bass upside down, pickups facing the floor!
That's why I am pretty sure a lot of people plays with a rest stroke there. But not rest strokes with the strings stopping it, but the actual pickup. Bad conduct and bad technique. And of course, people won't move their picking/plucking area to a spot that is not exactly above any pickup because they want the timbre and tone from just that one sweet spot. I've solved this with silicion tubes instead of springs and metal thread inserts.
- - - -
FWIW I think it's bass player Nathan Navarro, that has placed a special "dummy" pickup shell of wood, or something that makes him play with rest strokes, so a wooden plank underneath the strings stops the fingers from excess motion. It looks like and extra pickup but it isn't. Of course, the wood plank is placed under the sweet spot where he gets the best tone. He doesn't rest fingers ever on any pickup.
Check the background picture of this site (his YT channel)... However, the flip side to this must be that inhibits the funk, pop, and thumb and slap playing on the bass... at least in that area!
Nathan Navarro - YouTube
Last edited:
As others has told you before: If you start the "pluck" or the pick of the string from any kind of upwards towards the body motion, it will not only touch the pickup shell first, it may touch all other frets too, even when using tapping technique. You knack and jinx it out of angle so to speak. With starting with a downward force. I e just before the string is released it doesn't just touch your finger (which it should) it touches a whole lot of other things first, pickup shell, the rest of the frets.
It may very well be a combination of too flat relief (i e none at all) and a too low set nut just for that b-string. I e that you'll getting a BACKBOW BUZZ of the frets that is BEHIND the strings fretting point. Say if you fret the string at the twelfth fret, the rest of the string behind that point (i e the one moving towards the nut) actually touches (rests) on some or all frets because the clearance to the nut isn't right. Both the relief AND the nut slot for that string should (must) be high enough so the vibrations of the neck shouldn't transfer onto that string. Such things may very well only be heard when picking the initial attack, because that's when the amplitude and oscillation are the greatest.
One more question: Is the mechanical clonk heard acoustically too? I e when not plugged in at all? If it is heard both ways there's something mechanical going on, and I think the last thing to check for is to change out to a new string. Check all other things above first. Backbow buzz, neck relief, and especially the nut slot cut for that string especially. I e the nut slot cut maybe good enough for the rest of the strings, but not that groove for the low b-string. If it's too low it always touches the first few frets, and on top of that, if the neck relief is too flat, the rest of the frets along the neck.
You still haven't told us anything about your bass as of yet. Which make and model it is. You've only vaguely told us about some "ibby". I e Ibanez. And that it is a 6 string. Which makes it worse for us to make any kind of guesses. It can even be so that if you have active pickups the batteries are starting to get on the rocks. The amount of amplitude and magnetism a low B puts out is greater than the rest, so the active pickups will "choke" whenever they "hear" that low b-string but not the others. We don't know about this as of yet.
It may very well be a combination of too flat relief (i e none at all) and a too low set nut just for that b-string. I e that you'll getting a BACKBOW BUZZ of the frets that is BEHIND the strings fretting point. Say if you fret the string at the twelfth fret, the rest of the string behind that point (i e the one moving towards the nut) actually touches (rests) on some or all frets because the clearance to the nut isn't right. Both the relief AND the nut slot for that string should (must) be high enough so the vibrations of the neck shouldn't transfer onto that string. Such things may very well only be heard when picking the initial attack, because that's when the amplitude and oscillation are the greatest.
One more question: Is the mechanical clonk heard acoustically too? I e when not plugged in at all? If it is heard both ways there's something mechanical going on, and I think the last thing to check for is to change out to a new string. Check all other things above first. Backbow buzz, neck relief, and especially the nut slot cut for that string especially. I e the nut slot cut maybe good enough for the rest of the strings, but not that groove for the low b-string. If it's too low it always touches the first few frets, and on top of that, if the neck relief is too flat, the rest of the frets along the neck.
You still haven't told us anything about your bass as of yet. Which make and model it is. You've only vaguely told us about some "ibby". I e Ibanez. And that it is a 6 string. Which makes it worse for us to make any kind of guesses. It can even be so that if you have active pickups the batteries are starting to get on the rocks. The amount of amplitude and magnetism a low B puts out is greater than the rest, so the active pickups will "choke" whenever they "hear" that low b-string but not the others. We don't know about this as of yet.
Last edited:
There's an easy way to rule out the string, but it is a bit unwieldy:
1. Take off the b-string from the bass. If it's very easy to take all strings off an on without any effort.
2. Take off the e-string too.
3. Move it - the e-string - over to the b-string slot temporarily. The B-string nut slot and the bridge saddle for the b-string should be big enough for letting any string of lesser gauge to reside there, if only for this moment.
4. Tune it up to E (not to B by any means!).
Do you hear that same clonk? Is the problem still there? If then, it's not the low b string. If not...go figure.
5. Do not trade places with the strings, do not ever attempt to fit in that thick B-string to any other strings nut slot. For this test, it should be easy enough without having to change the relief at all, since the neck is at slightly different tension now, because of the removed string. Do not attempt to change relief just becasue of this intermediate test.
1. Take off the b-string from the bass. If it's very easy to take all strings off an on without any effort.
2. Take off the e-string too.
3. Move it - the e-string - over to the b-string slot temporarily. The B-string nut slot and the bridge saddle for the b-string should be big enough for letting any string of lesser gauge to reside there, if only for this moment.
4. Tune it up to E (not to B by any means!).
Do you hear that same clonk? Is the problem still there? If then, it's not the low b string. If not...go figure.
5. Do not trade places with the strings, do not ever attempt to fit in that thick B-string to any other strings nut slot. For this test, it should be easy enough without having to change the relief at all, since the neck is at slightly different tension now, because of the removed string. Do not attempt to change relief just becasue of this intermediate test.
Here's another thread on this forum, that a user detected the drawbacks of a tapered string. If anyting, the string will not be "in tune" or "intonated" with itself because when the string starts to oscillate, the bit that is oscillating at near the bridge is of a different gauge all of a sudden. The user has some cunning solutions to this, with pics and all, but I think it's better to skip tapered at all. That thread shows why, really.
Tapered string out of tune with itself | TalkBass.com
Conlusion: No open core strings, no tapered, no balanced. Period.
Last edited:
Ibanez BTB 1406e, nordstrand big single pickups, dunlop super bright nickel plated strings 130-30.
I'll test out some new batteries and see if this helps out!
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
Guyker 4 String Headless Bass Bridge (and headpiece) report!- Latest: Matt Liebenau