Double Bass Clarus head and Ampeg 115 HLF

[zillo]

Hi

New to upright and thinking about amplification.

Long time electric player, I have the above cabinet, and I have a condenser mic and little preamp to move the signal.

I am pondering a new Clarus head for my upright rig, but I am new to this world. Any thoughts on the above idea? Looking for help, so throw me a bone!

 

[Wasnex]

In my experience, the Clarus works well with upright. No idea how the 115HLF will work.

The amount of gain before feedback you can get running a mic through an amp tends to be rather low. The biggest problem is upright bass is not very loud to begin with; so it does not take much gain before the mic is hearing more amp than bass.

Another problem is if you are playing with other instruments, their sound is likely to bleed into the bass mic. Cymbals, in particular can be really bad. Assuming the mic is directional; it will reject the sound approaching the capsule from the rear. But the wooden face of a bass is curved and is highly reflective of energy in the frequency range of cymbals. So not only will the mic hear more cymbals than bass, the cymbals will have sort of a harsh unnatural sound. AFAIK, the unnatural quality occurs because the curved surface is reflecting the sound back to the mic over slightly different propagation paths; this causes sort of a flanging effect on the cymbals. If you turn down the treble to get rid of the nasty cymbal sound, you lose the wonderful nuances a mic can pickup, and the sound is no longer really true to the bass.

IMHO, If you need more gain before feedback and less bleed for other instruments, look into a good contact pickup.

 

[zillo]

Thanks! The mic is a “hyper-unidirectional” unit, so perhaps that offsets some of the concern - maybe not.

I guess I am wondering about thoughts on a 15 with upright bass in general, and the cab I have maybe secondarily. The band is hippie -folkie -bluegrassy- roots music. Not too loud- mando, cajon and hand percussion, acoustic and a bit of electric guitar, if that is useful information.

I’m on a bit of a budget, si I am trying to think this through. Thanks !

 

[Wasnex]

Thanks! The mic is a “hyper-unidirectional” unit, so perhaps that offsets some of the concern - maybe not.

I guess I am wondering about thoughts on a 15 with upright bass in general, and the cab I have maybe secondarily. The band is hippie -folkie -bluegrassy- roots music. Not too loud- mando, cajon and hand percussion, acoustic and a bit of electric guitar, if that is useful information.

I’m on a bit of a budget, si I am trying to think this through. Thanks !

My approach is to elevate the cab to about waist level. In my experience this reduces the amount of energy the speaker puts into the bass's body, so you can usually turn up a bit. Not everyone likes this approach. If you prefer big thumping lows, you will probably prefer the cab on the ground. I like a very clear articulate sound, and IMHO elevating helps.

You will probably want to fiddle with the level of the tweeter a bit to get the most natural sound.

The speaker may not be optimum, but I think it will work fine. I think the mic will be your biggest problem, but for low volume it will probably be okay.

If you are not already aware, @rickwolff has posted a lot of videos that show what can be achieved with various mics.

 

[neddyrow]

Where do you plan on using the mic?

Condenser mics are very sensitive and will feedback if you are going to try to play a gig in a noisy bar or coffee shop.

I'd definitely go with the Clarus but I would look into a simple pickup like a Bassmax. you can get them very cheap, they work well and you'll have less to worry about in your setup. I'm sure the cab will work fine. As you progress, you may want to switch it up later.

Good luck!

 

[Stewie]

My bass sounded great through a pair of SVT15Es. I use a Krivo magnetic pickup. Through an amp designed for electric bass, the tone is somewhere between the upright and a Pbass. When I ran the pickup directly into our PA , the sound is a lot more like the bass itself. A more hi fi speaker will sound better than your Ampeg, but I think you’ll like it well enough. I have sold off all my big gear(almost) and am now using an Ampeg Rocket Bass 210. I attended an outdoor big band concert where only the guitar and bass were amplified. I’m not sure what pickup the guy was using, but he sounded glorious through a Fender Rumble 40, which weighs almost nothing, and easily kept up with a ten or twelve piece horn section

 

[Ed Fuqua]

15s can get a little boomy sounding with upright, I much prefer a 12. Haven’t tried anything with 10s yet though. I just play jazz and I don’t play loud. Anytime it’s been a large auditorium the direct out on the Clarus has been more than enough to get out into the house. The mic I use is a Sennheiser MD 409, which is pretty live, it goes up in between the bridge feet wrapped in foam. I like the way it sounds…

 

[Jay Corwin]

IMO, if you start down the road of condenser mics - you're going to be disappointed. They can be used in very specific situations, but not with large bass cabinets. You can think you have a bulletproof setup at home, and then it all goes out the window when you setup in a strange room on a gig. In my experience mic'ing works best when everyone is being mic'd or just playing acoustic with minimal PA support for vocals. If you think you need bass amplification to being with, I would steer towards a pickup like others have suggested.

As for the head/cab setup - I would think you should be able to get a decent setup going with the Clarus. Large, ported bass cabs can sometimes be an issue, but the Clarus has a HPF that should work to tame some of that. Keep in mind it's not going to sound as nice as a mic'd bass no matter how you EQ it. But the trade is for functional volume, no feedback, and less headaches on the gig.

The Clarus is a nice piece of gear though. You should be able to tweak that thing enough to get a favorable result out the cabinet. Just make sure that your pickup is set up well, and don't be afraid to try it on the treble or bass side of your bridge regardless of the install instructions.

Welcome to the frustration of amplifying upright bass!

 

[zillo]

26034369[/URL], member: 191431"]Where do you plan on using the mic?

Condenser mics are very sensitive and will feedback if you are going to try to play a gig in a noisy bar or coffee shop.

I'd definitely go with the Clarus but I would look into a simple pickup like a Bassmax. you can get them very cheap, they work well and you'll have less to worry about in your setup. I'm sure the cab will work fine. As you progress, you may want to switch it up later.

Good luck!

A lot of our gigs are outdoors - winery stuff. All are pretty small and low key.

 

[zillo]

15s can get a little boomy sounding with upright, I much prefer a 12. Haven’t tried anything with 10s yet though. I just play jazz and I don’t play loud. Anytime it’s been a large auditorium the direct out on the Clarus has been more than enough to get out into the house. The mic I use is a Sennheiser MD 409, which is pretty live, it goes up in between the bridge feet wrapped in foam. I like the way it sounds…View attachment 4539339

Hey - I have your book! Love it!

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Hey - I have your book! Love it!

Solid, thank you!

 

[Marty Forrer]

I have the Clarus series4 and it's great. The sweepable HPF is wonderful for boomy rooms. You may not be so happy with the 1x15. It will work, but a 2x10 will be better unless you're looking at a loud rockabilly scenario.

 

[james condino]

.....I just play jazz…

The Clarus is a fantastic amp to always have on hand.

Spend an extra $35 and get yourself a Vic's Model B pickup; 90% of your gigs needs will be met.

 

[iAsh]

You’ll learn a lot spending some time getting the best sound you can with the amp and cab you already have. I’d hold off on dropping much on a dedicated acoustic amp until you better educate yourself through some hands on experience.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

You’ll learn a lot spending some time getting the best sound you can with the amp and cab you already have. I’d hold off on dropping much on a dedicated acoustic amp until you better educate yourself through some hands on experience.

As in “a fool with a tool is still a fool”?

 

[iAsh]

As in “a fool with a tool is still a fool”?

I would not presume to pass that judgment on anyone else but in my case yes.

 

[AGCurry]

Thanks! The mic is a “hyper-unidirectional” unit, so perhaps that offsets some of the concern - maybe not.

Probably not. As @Wasnex points out, the table of the bass will reflect other sounds, and most directional mics have the drawbacks of 1) undesirable off-axis response, and 2) proximity effect, in which low frequencies are emphasized as the mic is placed closer to its source - not what you want with the double bass. Additionally, hypercardioid and supercardioid mics have a "balloon" in their pickup pattern right at their back. Honestly (IMO), if you're committed to using a mic, you'd do better to wrap an SM57 or the like in some foam and stick it under the tailpiece. That practice goes back many decades.

 

[vin*tone]

Thanks! The mic is a “hyper-unidirectional” unit, so perhaps that offsets some of the concern - maybe not.

I guess I am wondering about thoughts on a 15 with upright bass in general, and the cab I have maybe secondarily. The band is hippie -folkie -bluegrassy- roots music. Not too loud- mando, cajon and hand percussion, acoustic and a bit of electric guitar, if that is useful information.

I’m on a bit of a budget, si I am trying to think this through. Thanks !

The dimension of the speaker makes less of a difference than people think - eg. a 410 can be engineered to deliver much bigger lows than a 1x15…. That said - -the HLF range from Ampeg is designed to give a big bottom end - and that's something you might need to attenuate with a High pass filter - either with a preamp or an amp such as the Clarus that has one built in.

 

[zillo]

26065071[/URL], member: 129014"]The dimension of the speaker makes less of a difference than people think - eg. a 410 can be engineered to deliver much bigger lows than a 1x15…. That said - -the HLF range from Ampeg is designed to give a big bottom end - and that's something you might need to attenuate with a High pass filter - either with a preamp or an amp such as the Clarus that has one built in.

The Ampeg cab is pretty sweet for a no tweet, 15 - nice full range sound with a big wide bottom and pretty articulate. I play a 5 string P- bass through a Traynor YBA2000-2 with it. I just love the whole rig for electric blues, folk rock, and really just about everything. Most definitely a cab with a huge presence .

Not sure if it is the best for upright, but I do realize that I have a first world problem I am working through .