Class D amp with the most slam/punch

[pfschim]

apropos of nothing the OP intended .... but honestly way more interesting to me than these discussions of Slam/Heft/Punch as it relates to amps.

My Dad (1928-2014) was a pro bass player in Chicago for many years and was an avowed fan of Slam Stewart, who's style deeply influenced my Dad's playing.

 

[B String]

I enjoyed using the Qwilter Bass block with a Nordstrand Starlifter pre. The Starlifter is my "Swiss army knife"

 

[gtirard]

I wonder how much of the DB75X's ´slam' and ´punch' could capture a good amp modeler? When you see blind tests of legendary guitar amps...

Also, I'd like to see how this slam/punch would translate into the digital definition of a tone capture.

 

[moretolife]

Markbass Little Marcus 1000 Limited
Much power!

 

[BlueTalon]

I once drank an entire bowl of slam/punch at a party.
The following 3 weeks are still a blur...

I once drank a pitcher of mojo at a bar in the Philippines when I was in the Navy. I did alright until the 2nd pitcher.

 

[5StringBlues]

 

[Franz975]

The Bergantino HP2, hands down.

I was an Aguilar artist for years, and even two TH500’s slaved together had nowhere near the “slam” or headroom that the DB751 does.

The HP2 is the only class D amp I’ve ever played through that has the same kind of visceral impact as playing through a DB751.

How is the Forte compare to HP2 on that point ?

 

[gtirard]

 

[Franz975]

View attachment 5243501

Incroyable ça mdr

 

[fishdude101101]

I've been on both sides of this issue over the years, and I'vbe been left with as many questions as answers..

1) If it's all about design choices, assuming the skill is there, why don't more designers build in some "slam"?
2) How much "slam" can you really expect from one or two drivers anyway?
3) I played jazz basses for hears, without adding pickups with more oomph, they don't slam. Dimarzio to the rescue? It was for me.
4) Lots of adherents to the "everything at noon" approach here on TB. I've yet to find an amp that "slams" with those eq settings, have you?

 

[gstaats]

Not to mention, without FOH support and just running at reasonable stage volume, what ever adjective one wants to use to describe bass tone (heft, slam, punch, thick, wooly, yada yada yada) isn't as apparent to the audience as it is part of the mix and hopefully blends well with the band... With FOH support, well, most of the time it doesn't matter as FOH is being provided a most likely DI'd bass signal and the FOH engineer does their own thing with it. The audience is hearing what is most likely a class D amp reproduce it. Most festivals I've played at recently, FOH sounded great. Massive PAs that smoke any reasonable bass rig. Throwing 1500 watts into a set of barefaced BB3 cabs indoors sound great. stupid loud. Outdoors? Not so stupid loud. Those 10's of kilowatts are needed at that point.

 

[SC Bassboy]

So after life changing moment of playing through a DB751, I remember the joy of playing through a lead sled. And while my TH500 is certainly a capable amp by all means, after hearing the DB751, I miss that slam only a big amp can do.

I know only a big amp is capable of hitting like that. But surely there are a few small class A/B or class D’s that can come close? If so, what hits as close to lead sled?

I agree with you about the "hit". Class D amps have been around for many years now and yet I still haven't played one that has the ass that a lead sled does, which I can only attribute to not having a transformer to store up power for peak slams. The Class D stuff I have played is all horsepower like a sport bike, little torque.

 

[groovaholic]

I miss that slam ... surely there are a few small class A/B or class D’s that can come close? If so, what hits as close to lead sled?

Wow...6 pages (so far) of people trashing the words used?

Or is it that the majority of players can't discern these attributes of the note envelope?
That would explain the dismissive attitude about this thread.

Yes, the words are currently imprecise - but I'm guessing that many more bassists can relate to "punch" and "slam" than would be comfortable discussing crest factor, slew rate, and damping factor.

So maybe here is where we define words like "punch" and "slam" and (my favorite) "quick"?
I'm sure it would be helpful to the amp designers if descriptors of desirable amp performance could be quantified.
It would also help players ask for recommendations of amps with those attributes - like how this thread started.

For example, I think the bass playing community has reached consensus on fretless "mwah":
It's not a universally accepted term, but most players know it when they hear it, and techs know how to set up a bass to maximize it.

For me:
"Punch" is a wide boost around 80-120Hz such that the 2nd harmonic of the lower strings and fundamental of the higher strings are prevalent in the signal.

"Slam" isn't a term I generally use, but I've played a few amps with little or no high-pass filtering (Mesa M6, Trace Elliot V-Type preamp) that felt like they were flat down to DC. On the Trace in particular, I remember grabbing my E string and shaking it, and the cone of my woofer moved along with it!
I felt that the plucking motion of the string was captured as subsonic pressure wave before the string was even released - it sounded and felt really cool, but I knew that it would be a speaker destroyer at high volumes.

"Quick" to me is a boost in the upper mids that gives a similar transient feeling as the "slam" that I noted with that Trace Elliot, but one that's not going to destroy speakers. It creates a feeling like the note is coming out of the amp at the exact moment that I release the string.

My Mesa M6 combined a ton of "slam" and "quickness" but felt less "punchy" because the low end went so deep.

 

[J Wilson]

WAIT A MINUTE!!!

Why are we kicking this around when we're all going amp-less and your SVT, DB751, WD800, and all the rest are going to be replaced by earbuds?

C'mon, it's Modern Times !

 

[Admiral Akbar]

WAIT A MINUTE!!!

Why are we kicking this around when we're all going amp-less and your SVT, DB751, WD800, and all the rest are going to be replaced by earbuds?

C'mon, it's Modern Times !

Ampless will gain more and more traction, but there is a certain je ne sais quoi… a tangible vibe that SVTs, db750 (or db751)’s, Thunderfunk’s, Sadowsky SA200’s, Reeves’, GK’s etc have that will never be replicated by cutesy and super convenient in-ear monitors. There will always be kids who want to feel and use that power for real.

 

[MattZilla]

https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Dolly-Multi-Mover-67243/dp/B00K2C7VC6

 

[chadds]

View attachment 5243507

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

 

[chadds]

WAIT A MINUTE!!!

Why are we kicking this around when we're all going amp-less and your SVT, DB751, WD800, and all the rest are going to be replaced by earbuds?

C'mon, it's Modern Times !

It's easy to say "we're all." My eyes and ears see and hear something else. How about "some of us?"

Practically, how does a bassist play in a duo at a small bistro or a Roadhouse biker gig, or bluegrass jam all in the same weekend? If your band is ampless, great. They carry significant PA to accomplish this? Ampless has it's time, place and advantages. So do amps.

 

[agedhorse]

I agree with you about the "hit". Class D amps have been around for many years now and yet I still haven't played one that has the ass that a lead sled does, which I can only attribute to not having a transformer to store up power for peak slams. The Class D stuff I have played is all horsepower like a sport bike, little torque.

Transformers don’t store power, and class D amps have transformers anyway.

Wow...6 pages (so far) of people trashing the words used?

Or is it that the majority of players can't discern these attributes of the note envelope?
That would explain the dismissive attitude about this thread.

Yes, the words are currently imprecise - but I'm guessing that many more bassists can relate to "punch" and "slam" than would be comfortable discussing crest factor, slew rate, and damping factor.

So maybe here is where we define words like "punch" and "slam" and (my favorite) "quick"?
I'm sure it would be helpful to the amp designers if descriptors of desirable amp performance could be quantified.
It would also help players ask for recommendations of amps with those attributes - like how this thread started.

For example, I think the bass playing community has reached consensus on fretless "mwah":
It's not a universally accepted term, but most players know it when they hear it, and techs know how to set up a bass to maximize it.

For me:
"Punch" is a wide boost around 80-120Hz such that the 2nd harmonic of the lower strings and fundamental of the higher strings are prevalent in the signal.

"Slam" isn't a term I generally use, but I've played a few amps with little or no high-pass filtering (Mesa M6, Trace Elliot V-Type preamp) that felt like they were flat down to DC. On the Trace in particular, I remember grabbing my E string and shaking it, and the cone of my woofer moved along with it!
I felt that the plucking motion of the string was captured as subsonic pressure wave before the string was even released - it sounded and felt really cool, but I knew that it would be a speaker destroyer at high volumes.

"Quick" to me is a boost in the upper mids that gives a similar transient feeling as the "slam" that I noted with that Trace Elliot, but one that's not going to destroy speakers. It creates a feeling like the note is coming out of the amp at the exact moment that I release the string.

My Mesa M6 combined a ton of "slam" and "quickness" but felt less "punchy" because the low end went so deep.

IME, it’s not related to crest factor, slew rate or damping factor.

 

[chadds]

.......for some of us our amps are part of the musical instrument signal chain. We want them to be. It's not a burden its a feature.