Keep in mind that a lot of these class D bass amplifiers are using off the shelf class D amplifier modules made from third party companies like B&O. These modules have been around a while now and have proven to be very reliable.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Class D Amps - Anyone else having second thoughts?
- Thread starter MetroBass
- Start date
Keep in mind that a lot of these class D bass amplifiers are using off the shelf class D amplifier modules made from third party companies like B&O. These modules have been around a while now and have proven to be very reliable.
I will be perfectly honest, I use all new light weight amps and find the tone very pleasing.
As a bass player who gigs fairly often I'd prefer not to carry really heavy gear around and any short comings of these lighter weight amps to me is a reasonable tradeoff for the convenience. Although I do not see many...
That being said the best amp I ever owned was a Glockenklang Heartrock and I will admit a slight edge in the tone of that amp over my Euphonic Audio Doubler. At 1/4 the price, 1/10 of the weight and 95% of the tone it is no contest which amp works better for my situation.
We all make our own decisions on the gear we prefer and the reasons for it. There is no reason to be anything but totally excited that we have all these options available to us.
As a bass player who gigs fairly often I'd prefer not to carry really heavy gear around and any short comings of these lighter weight amps to me is a reasonable tradeoff for the convenience. Although I do not see many...
That being said the best amp I ever owned was a Glockenklang Heartrock and I will admit a slight edge in the tone of that amp over my Euphonic Audio Doubler. At 1/4 the price, 1/10 of the weight and 95% of the tone it is no contest which amp works better for my situation.
We all make our own decisions on the gear we prefer and the reasons for it. There is no reason to be anything but totally excited that we have all these options available to us.
Everybody has an anecdote. TB is full of stories of heavy iron crapping the bed as well lighter fare failing. There's absolutely no factual information that shows better reliability of one over the other, although if someone has some real data i'm all ears.
I think succumbing to meritocracy is an ideal we can only hope the industry will do more of (as compared to the less relevant but more marketable ideals of celebrity, tradition, and hype).
Yes, RB, understood. Thanks.
My comments were made with the "in general" qualifier. I was trying to say that in general, there are pollutants in the retail pipeline. However, quality is available to the retail purchaser, if he goes in informed -- just as in the early days of transistors, a retail purchaser could buy top-shelf reliability if he did enough prior research.
I feel bad for the shops who already have their engineering chops down. And so (back to your point) I think it behooves them to write their marketing collateral (print and web) in a way that emphasizes a) what they use for subsystems, b) those subsystems' engineering trustworthiness/reliability, c) their proper integration into the supporting circuits, and d) the low retail-unit field-return rate. I consider C crucial. I once worked with a designer who used Analog Devices A/D converters (works of art) but in a way that basically massacred them once they hit the field and its real-world demands. My point is that a company can use the finest off-the-shelf gear and, for various reasons, still botch the final execution.
My comments were made with the "in general" qualifier. I was trying to say that in general, there are pollutants in the retail pipeline. However, quality is available to the retail purchaser, if he goes in informed -- just as in the early days of transistors, a retail purchaser could buy top-shelf reliability if he did enough prior research.
I feel bad for the shops who already have their engineering chops down. And so (back to your point) I think it behooves them to write their marketing collateral (print and web) in a way that emphasizes a) what they use for subsystems, b) those subsystems' engineering trustworthiness/reliability, c) their proper integration into the supporting circuits, and d) the low retail-unit field-return rate. I consider C crucial. I once worked with a designer who used Analog Devices A/D converters (works of art) but in a way that basically massacred them once they hit the field and its real-world demands. My point is that a company can use the finest off-the-shelf gear and, for various reasons, still botch the final execution.
I prefered the sound from my EA iamp350 (class a/b) to the iamp800 and iamp micro (class d)....shame the iamp750 never made it to production. Having said that, I find my Tecamp puma 1000 very "musical" and it has all the reduced weight benefits. Perhaps the Powersoft ouput stage helps this
I own, use, record and gig with all sorts of amps. They all have pros and cons. For me, tone is secondary to feel and note choice. As long as someone is playing with conviction, the amp class becomes irrelevant.
btw---Walter Woods was making class D amps 30 years ago. My MI225 is still one of my favorite 'lower wattage' amps. The technology isn't new---it has just evolved.
And, IMO, weight is enough of a reason to 'compromise' a bit.
btw---Walter Woods was making class D amps 30 years ago. My MI225 is still one of my favorite 'lower wattage' amps. The technology isn't new---it has just evolved.
And, IMO, weight is enough of a reason to 'compromise' a bit.
> I want me a 2Kw Crocophile Garganuator amp! NOW!
I want me one, too, but only if it's revision C04 or later. C02 and earlier units had the noisy power supply that would eventually spike the downstream circuitry to death. Problem was it was never the same component that would fall down, and the engineering department eventually succumbed to the crack pipe. B05 and earlier units had that problem AND the airflow problem that would eventually cause Q2 to overheat. They did a re-layout of the board for better airflow because the fan-speed change wasn't enough. C03 units had that well-known problem where an exclaimed female-voiced "HUT!" would come from the speakers every six seconds. It was especially noticeable with tweetered cabs. C04 fixed that.
I want me one, too, but only if it's revision C04 or later. C02 and earlier units had the noisy power supply that would eventually spike the downstream circuitry to death. Problem was it was never the same component that would fall down, and the engineering department eventually succumbed to the crack pipe. B05 and earlier units had that problem AND the airflow problem that would eventually cause Q2 to overheat. They did a re-layout of the board for better airflow because the fan-speed change wasn't enough. C03 units had that well-known problem where an exclaimed female-voiced "HUT!" would come from the speakers every six seconds. It was especially noticeable with tweetered cabs. C04 fixed that.
I lightened up all my stuff. But I still wind up helping haul
all the PA stuff in/out. So my back still hurts. No win.
all the PA stuff in/out. So my back still hurts. No win.
I think of class D amps as "green." They use less energy and take less energy to transport.
Plus, I have a Crown Microtech 1200 which I like. However, I find it not only dangerous to transport up and down 3 flights of stairs but, also damaging to my clothes. It's constantly pulling me into things, obstructing my vision and making all around difficult to walk.
Plus, I have a Crown Microtech 1200 which I like. However, I find it not only dangerous to transport up and down 3 flights of stairs but, also damaging to my clothes. It's constantly pulling me into things, obstructing my vision and making all around difficult to walk.
I don't think anyone could've said it better...
Its odd that this came up on the front page of the Make blog today:
A good vid if you have 60 minutes to actually watch it. Just have an open mind (or if you don't, take the dude up on one of his challenges if you think your ear is that hot)
Those things are so dense and heavy that they've got their own gravitational field.
My GB Shuttle gives me all the tone I want and I laugh watching the guitar players in my band lugging their beastly tube amps and taking multiple trips to the car while I am out the door in one trip with my gig bag on my back, Shuttle in a bag, and my small cab on a folding two-wheeler. 
I see no going back.
I see no going back.
Pretty much... same here... 45lbs amp & cab.. no problems here at all and no regrets whatsoever...
For the first time in over 30 years of gigging, I can carry a great sounding rig from my car into the venue in one trip. If I could have done that 30 years ago I would have done so without hesitation. Heavy amps are a pain and have no advantage in my gigging world.
Those of you who feel the need to do otherwise - I'm sympathetic. I understand the need to play a setup that sounds the way you want, even if nobody else can tell the difference. If it sounds right to you, then you'll enjoy playing through it more. I'm just glad that my lightweight rig sounds good to me and that I have no GAS for anything heavier.
Those of you who feel the need to do otherwise - I'm sympathetic. I understand the need to play a setup that sounds the way you want, even if nobody else can tell the difference. If it sounds right to you, then you'll enjoy playing through it more. I'm just glad that my lightweight rig sounds good to me and that I have no GAS for anything heavier.
Old debate even without inserting reliability as an issue: Convenience vs Performance. Yeah, when I was an "audiofile" I had tube gear too. (Harmon Karden Citation in my case.) I readily acknowledge that pristine vinyl sounds "better" than CDs and CDs often sound better than mp3s...
Were I to take the same approach in bass amps, it too would be tube. But I long ago surrendered tubes for transistors in terms of consistency. Now nearing age 55, I embrace my class D combo and have my old stage setup for sale for portability's sake.
Another lesson from 55 years on this earth is that there are ALWAYS tradeoffs. For me at this stage, class D is a very welcome one.
Oh one final thing: I'm about to make my SWR Workingman's 12 my practice room amp because I find the sound more gratifying. But the ease of transport will have my Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0/12T travelling with me. Trade offs. Always trade offs.
Were I to take the same approach in bass amps, it too would be tube. But I long ago surrendered tubes for transistors in terms of consistency. Now nearing age 55, I embrace my class D combo and have my old stage setup for sale for portability's sake.
Another lesson from 55 years on this earth is that there are ALWAYS tradeoffs. For me at this stage, class D is a very welcome one.
Oh one final thing: I'm about to make my SWR Workingman's 12 my practice room amp because I find the sound more gratifying. But the ease of transport will have my Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0/12T travelling with me. Trade offs. Always trade offs.
