This is also a thing, in some markets where stuff moves fast you might see some rack gear priced to move. It's all good gear, just not small or light, which is, and I argue always was, in vogue.
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This is also a thing, in some markets where stuff moves fast you might see some rack gear priced to move. It's all good gear, just not small or light, which is, and I argue always was, in vogue.
So should all products be size standardized? A one-size-fits-all approach to everything? Eliminate choices and variation. Outlaw variety. Homogenize the entire world? Or just bass amps?
As a full time gigging bass player who plays all over the place, I have zero interest in a 1u rackable amp. The form of it is not practical. IMO its much easier to take a small "class D" head like the TH350 for instance, and just put it in your gig bag, or in a small carrying bag that you can put over your shoulder.
It seems like the trend of using rack systems for everything (tuners, fx, wireless, power conditioning, etc) is fading. Most of that stuff is on people’s pedalboards now, from what I observe. So I’m not sure that a lot of folks need a head to slot-into an existing rack system.
Bass in one hand, little class D amp in a shoulder bag, pedal board and chords in another shoulder bag. Cab the second load. All that rack mount stuff just isn't needed, and can't be stored, protected, or transported as easily. If I had to have an all tube amp then I'd get a nice cover for it, wouldn't put it in a rack.
It's a great thing IF you want it. The Demeter pre's with the power amp built in are exactly that format.
For me personally, I don't want to be 'handcuffed' to a rack. If my gear was flying or being trucked from one city to the next on a big tour, I'd welcome it. But that's not me, so a cigar box-sized amp in a little bag is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
For me personally, I don't want to be 'handcuffed' to a rack. If my gear was flying or being trucked from one city to the next on a big tour, I'd welcome it. But that's not me, so a cigar box-sized amp in a little bag is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
First and foremost, the standard rack was just a unit of comparison. It can certainly be feasible to create a new standard when a new technology emerges. As of right now, Nearly all the class D amps of a given wattage range are 'kind of similar' in size. What if they were all the same height, width and depth? What would be so wrong with that. All the 700-900W amps are all the size of a D800+. All the sub 300W are the size of a GK MB200. All the ones in the middle are the size of a TH500.
Everything regarding bass pickups are size standardized; you have either P, J, soapbar, mudbucker, or MM and we get along pretty well fitting into one of those sizes with only a few outside those. Bass necks all follow one of a few scale length standards.
Comparing arbitrarily a 1U network switch, 18.1 x 9.1 x 3.2 inches = 527 cubic in
to a Mesa D800+ Dimensions: 2.625" H x 13.25" W x 10.15" D = 323 cubic in
Yes I fully appreciate that there is a difference in size. However the tradeoff would have been greater area in the chassis for venting, spreading out components that require heatsinks, possibly not needing active cooling. but without a case, 18x9x3 inches is hardly a large item unless class D is a vacuum that ignores all the bass amp heads that have come before it. Compare any class D in size and weight to any SS amp available just before the class D started to be available. That was still night and day difference.
This thread makes a few things clear to me. While I prioritize protecting my expensive gear, yes you could say at the expense of convenience, so many people are putting their amp head in a pocket on the bass gig bag, or in a backpack, or other soft, not particularly protective case. When you do so, your knobs get turned every which way, another 'protective' benefit of a hard case. You can certainly protect an amp head with a case that isn't a rack, but the examples provided aren't mentioning any of that. With a rack case, you also get handles on either side and/or top, place to store cables and accessories. And in a hard case, when your head is yanked off its cab it's less likely to be damaged.
I always bring a backup amp head, seems like many do not. Granted, some may go FOH before the amp itself, but I always go FOH from the amp and post EQ if I can. Depending on the vehicle, I will bring a backup cab even if it's not needed. My initial thought of a 2U rack containing 2 class D amps, you carry your backup amp to every gig, conveniently without an extra trip and the whole thing weights what 10-12 lb?
The purpose of this suggestion was not to incorporate other rack sized things that are now perfectly happy living on a pedalboard, although if you still have a rack effect you like a lot by all means. Currently if you have a rack effect you like a lot, too bad unless you happen to get a class D with rack ears to put it all together. However that wasn't exactly what I was suggesting.
And finally, even if the 19" size isn't the standard, I would still think everything from the tiny GK MB sized units to the relatively large class D's such as the BX1600 Carvin and the Subways could still have standardization in their overall chassis dimensions, allowing hard cases to be made for this brave new class D world that quite frankly is a bit less rugged than older amps were. Is a Peavey Mini Mega going to live through the same abuses as a Mark IV could? Maybe. Want to donate yours and find out?
Do I think all SUVs should be the same size? Well yes, I think there should be small, medium, and large SUVs and they should be made to conform to some standardization. So many SUVs can barely drive over grass let alone truly go off road, and I think there are a lot of garbage vehicles simply stretched taller to look like a real SUV for the sake of selling more units. I am not fond of the idea of one person inside a big fat mostly empty vehicle getting less than 15mpg on its best day. Buy a big sturdy capable SUV and use it for its intended purpose, park it when it's not apporpriate. Drive a small car to go get groceries by yourself. But that's a totally different conversation to have.
Do I think everything else that makes sense should be standardized to size? well yes, generally that would make things easier. Do I think eliminating choice has anything to do with standardizing sizes for most products? No. Do I think that's a ridiculous false equivalence? Yes. If you think I'm 'the man' coming down on you for all your perceived freedom of not having things in standard sizes, I'd like you to tell me who makes your custom shoes and tailors every garment you wear.
Everything regarding bass pickups are size standardized; you have either P, J, soapbar, mudbucker, or MM and we get along pretty well fitting into one of those sizes with only a few outside those. Bass necks all follow one of a few scale length standards.
Comparing arbitrarily a 1U network switch, 18.1 x 9.1 x 3.2 inches = 527 cubic in
to a Mesa D800+ Dimensions: 2.625" H x 13.25" W x 10.15" D = 323 cubic in
Yes I fully appreciate that there is a difference in size. However the tradeoff would have been greater area in the chassis for venting, spreading out components that require heatsinks, possibly not needing active cooling. but without a case, 18x9x3 inches is hardly a large item unless class D is a vacuum that ignores all the bass amp heads that have come before it. Compare any class D in size and weight to any SS amp available just before the class D started to be available. That was still night and day difference.
This thread makes a few things clear to me. While I prioritize protecting my expensive gear, yes you could say at the expense of convenience, so many people are putting their amp head in a pocket on the bass gig bag, or in a backpack, or other soft, not particularly protective case. When you do so, your knobs get turned every which way, another 'protective' benefit of a hard case. You can certainly protect an amp head with a case that isn't a rack, but the examples provided aren't mentioning any of that. With a rack case, you also get handles on either side and/or top, place to store cables and accessories. And in a hard case, when your head is yanked off its cab it's less likely to be damaged.
I always bring a backup amp head, seems like many do not. Granted, some may go FOH before the amp itself, but I always go FOH from the amp and post EQ if I can. Depending on the vehicle, I will bring a backup cab even if it's not needed. My initial thought of a 2U rack containing 2 class D amps, you carry your backup amp to every gig, conveniently without an extra trip and the whole thing weights what 10-12 lb?
The purpose of this suggestion was not to incorporate other rack sized things that are now perfectly happy living on a pedalboard, although if you still have a rack effect you like a lot by all means. Currently if you have a rack effect you like a lot, too bad unless you happen to get a class D with rack ears to put it all together. However that wasn't exactly what I was suggesting.
And finally, even if the 19" size isn't the standard, I would still think everything from the tiny GK MB sized units to the relatively large class D's such as the BX1600 Carvin and the Subways could still have standardization in their overall chassis dimensions, allowing hard cases to be made for this brave new class D world that quite frankly is a bit less rugged than older amps were. Is a Peavey Mini Mega going to live through the same abuses as a Mark IV could? Maybe. Want to donate yours and find out?
Do I think all SUVs should be the same size? Well yes, I think there should be small, medium, and large SUVs and they should be made to conform to some standardization. So many SUVs can barely drive over grass let alone truly go off road, and I think there are a lot of garbage vehicles simply stretched taller to look like a real SUV for the sake of selling more units. I am not fond of the idea of one person inside a big fat mostly empty vehicle getting less than 15mpg on its best day. Buy a big sturdy capable SUV and use it for its intended purpose, park it when it's not apporpriate. Drive a small car to go get groceries by yourself. But that's a totally different conversation to have.
Do I think everything else that makes sense should be standardized to size? well yes, generally that would make things easier. Do I think eliminating choice has anything to do with standardizing sizes for most products? No. Do I think that's a ridiculous false equivalence? Yes. If you think I'm 'the man' coming down on you for all your perceived freedom of not having things in standard sizes, I'd like you to tell me who makes your custom shoes and tailors every garment you wear.
I used to carry a 3u rack case with effects, which sat atop my old big, heavy combo amp along with a pedal board.
Then I saw the light and downsized to a small less than 6lb head, lightweight cab and a pedal board.
I now have a helix and considering getting a powered frfr speaker, even less to carry.
I never want to go back to carrying a rack again. Even some of the big touring musicians known for using racks back in the day are downsizing to modern modelling units and/or micro amps.
Then I saw the light and downsized to a small less than 6lb head, lightweight cab and a pedal board.
I now have a helix and considering getting a powered frfr speaker, even less to carry.
I never want to go back to carrying a rack again. Even some of the big touring musicians known for using racks back in the day are downsizing to modern modelling units and/or micro amps.
Despite all the long drawn out theories, the answer is simple:
Market demand.
It’s whats selling.
Personally, I would NEVER carry around a head in a backpack but I’m in the minority. I also refuse to use Gig bags but again...my preference.
Market demand.
It’s whats selling.
Personally, I would NEVER carry around a head in a backpack but I’m in the minority. I also refuse to use Gig bags but again...my preference.
Walter Woods's amp don't have fans, be it Class A/B or Class D (Electracoustic amps).
I sense, from a post above, a bit of back-peddling on the 19' rack mount size "requirement" that was in the initial post in this thread. Interesting.
I don’t think that standardizing on rack dimensions is the right suggestion. But if the standard becomes a choice among several consistent small box sizes, then creating universal standard rack ears and/or bezels as add-on products becomes more practical. Rack shelves alone are fairly unsatisfactory for many rack users.
As someone who used a rack system for many years, I never want to go back to that again, just like I don't want to start lugging 20+ lb amps anymore. I have never had any of my lightweight heads get pulled off my cabs, but I have had rack mounted rigs that slid around in vans and got dropped by other folks carrying my stuff. They are awkward things to carry. Also, if you are referring to the usual SKB type rack, that itself adds another 10 lbs or so to the schlepp. Lightweight head users typically get a carry bag with the amp that has pockets for cables. Many are discovering sturdier laptop bags that fit these heads for more protection. I've been putting my lightweight GB heads in the bags they came with and have never seen the knobs moved a hair, when being placed in or taken out. I also typically take a spare head, although since moving to Genz Benz Shuttle heads, have never needed one. It's still an easier schlepp than hauling around a rack. Bottom line, I'm getting more power than I will ever need in something that weighs 6.5 lbs, with all the EQ I could ask for. Hey if you dig carrying around a rack mounted system, more power to ya. At this point for me, its all about the schlepp, and , thus, a no brainer.
The only 2 Class D amps I own are 19 inch rack units, and Ampeg SVT8-Pro and an Epifani UL902C. IMHO these are great amps, but they lack one key feature that makes Class D superior to other designs, small size and light weight. I think these amps would be fine for a touring pro, because they frequently package their amp in a rolling rack that gets pushed into the back of a truck. For a musician that gigs around town, I think a smaller, lighter package has advantages. Typically people throw their rigs in the back of their car or truck, or perhaps cart it on the subway in extreme circumstances.
Back in the day, I always found it to be a huge hassle to use my touring rig for local gigs, so I bought a GK 700RB/112 combo. It was very small and compact, but extremely heavy by today's standards. I bought it before Neo cabs and Class D amps were a big deal. No worries, the amp has a telescoping handle and tilts back on wheels so it can roll around like airport luggage. I could do medium volume gigs with this amp and only had to make one trip from the car. Most of my local gigs were down town, so a two block walk from parking to the gig was not unusual.
If I started doing local gigs again, I might consider getting some modern light weight cabs and a micro Class-D head. At one time I was really interested in the GK MB800 Fusion and Genz Benz Streamliner 900. Today, I might be tempted by a Mesa WD-800. Not that I need another amp.
I think if you look, you will find Class D amps that are not in the micro category. The Fender Bassman 800 head comes to mind as sort of the opposite extreme. Classic big head format, but only 15lbs.
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I have my GK MB500 rack mounted in a shallow 3 space SKB X-Rack along with an Ampeg SVP CL preamp and a Furman power conditioner. This setup works out really well in that it packs up very small for a component rack system and is only 24 lbs total. Despite the tight quarters inside the rack, the MB500 has plenty of room to "breath" because its cooling fan and vents are on the sides and there are several inches of open space on each side of the head when it's rack mounted. I use the MB500 standalone through my old school tweeterless Schroeder 1515L cab or just as a poweramp with the Ampeg SVP CL plugged into the effects return patch point through my Schroder 210PL.
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- Feb 12, 2006
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- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Where lots of equipment may be mixed and matched (think pro audio), standardization of mounting and signal formats makes all the sense in the world. We just did shop inventory and as I look out I see 16 racks, most 14U touring racks and 8U amp racks but there are 3 or 4 3U effects or specialty racks. These all get different gear depending on the gigs or tour they are going out on, so in this case the ease of mounting and wiring is more valuable than just the smallest package possible.
That said, how many bass players are mixing and matching other rack mount gear like this? For most, the smaller size and lighter weight is MUCH more important.
Why are amps not the same size? All 3 Subway amps are different sizes because their feature sets dictate it. Couldn't fit the 800+ in the 800 package, and it's not the power that's the limiting factor.
That said, how many bass players are mixing and matching other rack mount gear like this? For most, the smaller size and lighter weight is MUCH more important.
Why are amps not the same size? All 3 Subway amps are different sizes because their feature sets dictate it. Couldn't fit the 800+ in the 800 package, and it's not the power that's the limiting factor.
The 700-watt ICE module is a specific size which limits how small the case can be WRT depth and width. It could be put into a 19-inch-wide case, but that kind of defeats the objective of a small, very portable amp.
You should send your suggestions to the Central Planning Committee.
