I think terminology is the difference here.
Think of a key in terms of a three-story house. The music starts on the ground floor and moves within the three floors and in-between, perhaps jumping floors. The size and shape of the house can be the form of the piece. Now, there’s a house next to it, with three floors and the music now modulates to that house. Perhaps there’s a third house etc…
I THINK we’re saying the same thing. Just because a piece modulates to a new “house” and ends there doesn’t mean the ground floor of the new house isn’t tonic... the new tonic. The old house tonic is only a memory. True, Handle, Palestrina and co. began and ended their multi movement pieces in the same house; Haydn, Mozart, Mahler, etc started their movements in different houses, BUT always in the same neighborhood…related keys.
What I’m saying to FA is Bach didn’t invent, but embodied the three floor house…I, IV, V and to absorb as much Bach as he can. Blues, folk, rock, and a great deal of jazz are built on it and rarely modulate to new houses. The one thing rock contributed was a fourth floor: the double plagal cadence…what I hear as VIIb chord…C, Bb, F, C for example.
The experiment of the serial composers… would have baffled Bach.
So FA: The question one man asks is more revealing than another man’s answer. Listen AND play!!
Think of a key in terms of a three-story house. The music starts on the ground floor and moves within the three floors and in-between, perhaps jumping floors. The size and shape of the house can be the form of the piece. Now, there’s a house next to it, with three floors and the music now modulates to that house. Perhaps there’s a third house etc…
I THINK we’re saying the same thing. Just because a piece modulates to a new “house” and ends there doesn’t mean the ground floor of the new house isn’t tonic... the new tonic. The old house tonic is only a memory. True, Handle, Palestrina and co. began and ended their multi movement pieces in the same house; Haydn, Mozart, Mahler, etc started their movements in different houses, BUT always in the same neighborhood…related keys.
What I’m saying to FA is Bach didn’t invent, but embodied the three floor house…I, IV, V and to absorb as much Bach as he can. Blues, folk, rock, and a great deal of jazz are built on it and rarely modulate to new houses. The one thing rock contributed was a fourth floor: the double plagal cadence…what I hear as VIIb chord…C, Bb, F, C for example.
The experiment of the serial composers… would have baffled Bach.
So FA: The question one man asks is more revealing than another man’s answer. Listen AND play!!